Concealed space sprinklers, right now looking at Tyco

[SprinklerDesigner2]

This is what the attic space looks like and it covers approximately 5,600 sq ft.

Wet system. Yes, there is insulation but it is more for air conditioning as the building sits on the Florida/Georgia state line. Flat roof with 2"x8" top and bottom chords having 2"x4" diagonals.

Anyone know of any really small fitters looking for a job?

Looking at the Tyco Model CC2 — 4.2 and 5.6 K-factor Combustible Concealed Space Sprinklers™ Specific Application, Upright sprinklers and I have a couple questions.

Looking at Figure 7 (that is the closest to what we have) on pdf page 6 (I will be using steel pipe) we see a 2" maximum and 1 1/2" minimum distance from deflector to bottom of top chord on the sprig up sprinkler but there's a second sprinkler on the pie itself positioned much lower.... why? The way I read it we're safe if we run the deflectors 2" to 1 1/2" down but...

Another question I have has to do with "blocking".

for solid wood joist construction (Fig. 5)and obstructed wood truss construction (Fig. 7), [highlight #FCE94F]blocking[/highlight] must be provided in each upper deck and ceiling joist channel at a maximum 32 feet (9,75m) intervals. This blocking shall be installed to the full depth of the joists and be installed so as to not allow heat to escape through or above the blocking. The blocking must be constructed using a non-combustible material or the joist construction material

Ok, what is this "blocking" they are speaking of? I know what the baffle is but now blocking? I got to go back and check but I don't think I have seen a "blocking" requirement for any of the other (Viking) concealed space sprinklers but I can not be sure.

Non combustible blocking... or since the joist is combustible I can use wood? Same wood as I use in the baffle?

I am thinking of running all the pipe below the drywall, there is a suspended ceiling below that, using 1" sprig-ups to supply each concealed space sprinkler. What I would do is cut a 2'x2' hole in the drywall, install my sprinkler head on a sprig up and have reinstall the drywall around it with tape and fire stopping. I know I sure can't fit in the space.

Now I am gonna go read Vikings and see if they got "blocking" requirements.

 

[cdafd]

Looks like fun.

Can I ask how it progressed to this stage, with no sprinklers or other fix?

Anyway I would say blocking as in to slow down the fire, and appears it can be wood.

https://icreatables.com/how-to-build-shed/framing/fire-blocking

http://www.seacliff-ny.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Fireblocking.pdf

 

[cdafd]

Might be cheaper/ easier to fill it with blow in!!!

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Occupancy change. Built 30 years ago it was a restaurant and did not serve liquor but now it is turning into an establishment that serves alcohol. As I understand it, and I am not a building professional architect or engineer mind you, but the way I understand it is in Georgia if it serves alcohol it gets sprinklered per NFPA #13.

I don't think you would be able to fill the space with blown in insulation....

 

[cdafd]

Ok

Yep retro fits are nice

Can’t do blow in because of some other non sprinkler issue???

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

cdafd, I would have to look at 13 but I am to tired out right now. Doesn't 13 require the blown in insulation to be within 6" of the deck? It's either 6" or 8"... just can't remember. But I do remember some horror stories where the insulation people could not fill the space for some reason which resulted in the sprinkler guy... it was a real mess and I want to avoid messes. If I just do it it will be done right because all the sprinkler work is under my control where the insulation people are not.

So... is the block they speak of something like 3/8" plywood that covers the entire truss from top to bottom?

The Viking VK950 COIN Sprinkler requires blocking as well.

Let's see if I understand this.

a. concealed space limitations

The total concealed space is not limited, but blocking between joists and upper deck must be constructed of material that will not allow heat to escape through or above the blocking. The blocking must be constructed to the full depth of the upper joist, and must be constructed using a non-combustible material or a material that is the same as that of the joist construction. [highlight #FCE94F]A maximum channel space for blocking is 32‘[/highlight] (9.75 m) intervals.

Also, solid wall construction or draft curtains (heat collection baffles) must protrude below the joist a minimum of 6” (152 mm) or 1/3 the space, whichever is greatest, and run laterally with the joist spaced at 31‘ (9.4 m) width maximum to limit the heat detection space to a maximum of 1,000 ft2 (93 m2). The draft curtain may be constructed of ¼” (6.4 mm) thick plywood to prevent heat from escaping beyond.

My building is 50'x100' for 5,000 sq ft.

Obviously I need baffles to cut the area into at least 5 areas each at 1,000 sq ft each. The reality is it will take 6 baffles because in construction nothing is ever perfect.

My trusses are 50' wide and as the building is 100' long there are 50 trusses spaced 2' OC.

I am going to need at least three draft curtains positioned along the truss so the distance between two draft curtains does not exceed 32'. Let's say I have a draft curtain 30' apart so the area enclosed within the draft curtain space would be 32'x50 or 1,600 sq ft. This means I will have to have a draft curtain separating the 1,600 sq ft space into two separate spaces.

As the trusses are wood I can use 3/8" plywood for my blocking. This plywood will have to be fixed to the side of the truss from top to bottom chord.

Do I have this right?

And don't worry about me, I will call Viking or Tyco before to make sure I fully understand before actually proceeding. But they don't open until Monday and I am a curious sort.

 

[cdafd]

I would say top to bottom

Cannot speak on thickness.

On the insulation I think 13 allows a two inch gap.

If the fluffy insulation is used, normally not a fill problem.
Plus a du hickey like this is great to see if filled or not:::

https://www.amazon.com/Extech-BR80-Borescope-Inspection-Camera/dp/B00APD0IJ0

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

cdafd, that is really neat! I can see use for it.

 

[cdafd]

In some cases, filling an unsprinklered combustible concealed space with noncombustible insulation might be more economically advantageous than installing sprinklers. It is frequently a practical problem to completely fill concealed spaces with insulation. In the 2013 edition, language was added to permit a 2 in. (50 mm) air gap between the top of the insulation and the roof or ceiling above. Exhibit 8.37 provides an example of this requirement.

 

[cdafd]

Strange none of the diagrams show the blocking