Continued learning for a new Graduate 1

[cjme]

Hey everyone,

I recently graduated from Industrial Engineering, and I've been working with a Machine Design firm for the past month now, using Inventor & AutoCAD. I'm not trying to be the new guy coming in and changing around everything that works, but I wanted to ask something.

In the short time I've been there, I've noticed that (other than the pay) there isn't too much of a difference between the technologists & the engineers (there are only 3 engineers including me). A lot of the work done is for a large steel mill, so it seems that most things are designed just so that they won't break if something heavy is dropped on them (everything is oversized).

I know I'm going to learn a lot from the two engineers, and I know this question probably gets asked a lot around here, but I was just wondering if there was anything I could do on my own to improve my knowledge (i.e. technical journals, classes, textbooks, etc). As an EIT I'm not technically required to improve my knowledge base, but it's something I'd like to do since I'm an Industrial graduate and don't have the extensive Mechanical background. For my first project I've been doing some sort of framework/jig/structural work, but I also will be doing a lot of work with hydraulics, motors/gears, and working with machinists/welders down in the shop.

I appreciate any help offered, thanks a lot.

 

[ziggi]

I'm a junior engineer too, I've found that the best way to learn is hands on.
I learnt quite alot about welding from hanging out with the welders, I learnt about NDT by hanging out with the NDT techs, I learnt about fractures and fatigue failures from our resident onsite fatigue doctor and the samples he brought in. Some of it was boring as sin but some was pretty fun...such a sticking a welding rod to a base....the extraction was the fun part (it was also loud and very very bright).

 

[Ashereng]

cj,

If you don't think you will learn from the techies, you are denying yourself a large source of knowledge.

Don't be snobbish about peoples's titles, background, etc.

Put it another way. If the engineers and techies are doing the same thing, why would you think one superior over the other?

Yes, I am a P.Eng. Yes, there are lots of technicians that I work with, daily, that know lots that I don't. That's why we have technicians, and engineers, in our company.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[mizzoueng]

Ask around and see what kind of training the company offers. Will they pay for you to go to classes such as NDT, welding, and seminars?

Another good source of info is vendors. If you are buying motors etc. call them and ask for a book about the stuff they sell. Not just a catalog, but an actual techincal manual.

Also ask the techs what classes they take and where they sign up for them. If you learn what they know, it will make you job and theirs easier as both of you know the difference between what works on paper and what actually works in real life.

 

[65Roses]

What are you doing working in a job with an IE degree if the skills you lack are ME related? You wouldn't need to obtain any additional knowledge of the topics you mentioned if you had a ME degree.

 

[mizzoueng]

I doubt that SPS, I am a ME and if it wasn't for the fact I worked as a pipefitter assistant as a kid I wouldn't know diddly about welding, NDT, or actual fabrication. IMO I think every engineer should go work with a pipefitter, plumber, electrician, bricklayer, carpenter, and laborer for 2-3 weeks each to understand what it is they do and how they install things.

Because we can learn how things work in college, but unless you have aactually sat down and tried to install/make what you design you have no idea what it takes to really do what you are asking.

 

[zdas04]

I'm with mizzoueng. All a degree shows me is an ability to eventually become worth something. In Oil & Gas up until about 1983, new engineers spent 6-months on a roust-about truck, slinging a pipe wrench, shovel, and pipe threader. Looking at the engineers still in the industry, the ones who went through that initiation are more than just a cut above their peers who were able to skip it.

The guys that worked in some industrial job prior to graduation and then went through the 6-month initiation are even more effective.

To say that someone stops learning after graduation is really naive. I started a project last week that is just full of stuff that is totally new to me. I'm tickled about the chance to learn it and college (even graduate school) was a REALLY long time ago.

David

 

[cjme]

Ashereng,

I think I didn't word my post correctly. The guys I work with are CAD/CAM technologists, and they know way more than me about the job. A lot of the time when I ask them a question they finish the answer with "you're the engineer, do you agree with what I just told you?" I just look at them and tell them that they know way more than me anyways so they don't need to say that. I guess what I was trying to ask was what I could do to gain some extra knowledge to prove why I deserve to be called an engineer and be able to answer some of their questions down the road.

SPSU97,

The Industrial program that I took is different, it is like half mechanical classes (the 2 engineers I work with are also Industrials). It's just not quite as in depth as a full on mechanical program.

 

[stanier]

If you join a learned society like the Institution of Mechanical Engineers or Institution of Engineers Australia you will find they have a virtual library. In their you will find subscriptions to electronic books. Read as many as you can, then ask sensible questions of anyone who will listen. Study in the school of life rather than getting more academia inside yourself.

Attend the presentation of technical papers by the learned society. Even if you are not interested in the topic today it may spark an interest for the future. Network with the people you meet there. Opportunities come from people not advertisements. You may even learn some skills in presenting technical papers which will come in handy for the future.

Everything you learn is training you for the future, even if you dont recognise it today.

Geoffrey D Stone FIMechE C.Eng;FIEust CP Eng

http://www.waterhammer.bigblog.com.au

 

[mizzoueng]

Nothing but experience will get you past that question. You can take all the classes you want, but most of the techs know what they are doing and have found the best (sometimes) and fastest way to get stuff done.

 

[Ashereng]

"you're the engineer, do you agree with what I just told you?"

This could be two things:

1) There is a class system at your place of work. The non-engineers and engineers. I have been in places like that. I usually see this at operating plants - old industries like textiles. It is a culture developed over many many years.

2) You may have given them the impression, unwittingly, that you think you are an "engineer" and they are not. Just like you did with me. When I read your post, that was the impression your words made. If you can do that on text, think of the messages you may be sending by words, expression, actions, etc.

Just my interpretations.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[65Roses]

I don't know where the rest of you ME's went to school but where I went they made us learn the theoretical and hands on application. In other words I had to learn how to machine and weld all in one semester.

 

[ziggi]

SP,
I wish they had let us do that back in univ, I pushed for some hands on stuff with my profs but to no avail. We did alot of labs but somehow I don't think that creating circuits or pulleys is quite as useful as welding or machining.
We did get to watch someone doing those things, but it's not the same.

 

[Twoballcane]

CJ,

Life after college is tough and you have to pay your dues to get up to speed with everybody else and that only takes experience and gaining practical knowledge from techs, books, or a mentor in your field. IMO going back to technical schools to get certified for a skill just so you are aware of what your tradesmen are doing is almost counter productive. If you want something machined or welded you don’t tell the machines or welder how to do their job in the drawing you have to have enough knowledge of what cuts you want or what two ends you want welded with a call out for the weld. That is why your company hired the machines and welder. All they need to know is what you want (from a drawing) and they will carry out the proper skill and technique to get the job done.

You have the theoretical background, now you have to put it to practice. By the way, you said that you were trained as an IE but you got hired as a ME. Not to knock you, but how did that happened if I can ask. IEs usually manage and administer manufacturing tasks not design or do Mechanical Engineering analysis. It sounds like you were ill suited for the position (please don’t take that in offense). A Mechanical Engineer new grad would have some knowledge to do what you are asking.

"you're the engineer, do you agree with what I just told you?"

For the companies that I worked for Engineer / Designer relationships were always in a class system. The designers basically work for you. You are the one in charge of the design not the designers. If the design fails or goes over budget, guess what, upper management will come after you, not the designers. You’re the one that has to stand in front of management not the designers and tell managers what went wrong. It is also the other way around, at critical design reviews, you have to stand in front of management and pitch the design.

Because you are the Engineer, you have the last word on fit, form, and function of the design if you like it or not.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."