Contractors engineer vs consulting engineer 1

[Waramanga]

Hi guys,

I have always worked in a consulting environment and I was wondering what the 'other side' looks like. I know a little about what they do ie equipment selections, calculations, design for design and construct projects. Can anyone elaborate? I realise that just like in consulting you could just do pump head calcs all day, but what does a good contractors engineering job look like? Is fault finding, commissioning, tendering all apart of it. How much is there on the design side of things?

thank you, any of you thoughts would be appreciated

 

[cdxx139]

Ive had the same question itching at me for a while now too. I have been thinking of moving to a design-build firm, which would be the bst of both worlds. Ultimately I just want to get more world world installation experience, and not just desk experience.

Hope we get some good feedback.

knowledge is power

 

[sprinkler1000]

A few thoughts, having worked on an HVAC firm and now I am on a consulting firm.
Working in a contractor firm has a wide variety of tasks to perform. Designing systems, preparing quotations, and being on the phone with architects, clients and welders and duct installers. Computing kg of sheet metal and lenght of pipes to buy, and selecting equipment.
It is the best place to learn the field.

On the other side in a consulting firm, the job deals more with plans and specs, standards, and defining the way a job has to be tendered by the contractors.
It is more technical in the sense that you are more involved with standards.
Also from the consulting firm, you have a more wide view of the field, that includes many installation types. Contractor firms are more narrow to the type of equipment they sell.
As others have said in this forum, I beleive that consulting is a very specific job that can come after years of work. I do not consider myself a consultant right now.

 

[SAK9]

Having worked on both sides,I believe I am qualified to comment

Where you can really make a difference with a contractor is in winning work especially on design and build tenders.With a conservative design you could always end up on the losing side.If you take too many risks,you may win the job but will regret later.So it is a real test of your design skills and knowledge in the cruel and practical world.I am sure there will be opportunities to do value engineering on the hard tenders.

The additional bonus is in getting to know what works and what does not when the project managers que up to seek your advice on their commissioning problems.

 

[cry22]

I did not work for a contractor for say, but over 25 years, I've seen contractors' suggestions, designs, change orders and the likes.

Simply put, contractors know enough to be dangerous, they are not qualified to design. They do not ahve a broad knowledge of the field, especially clueless in codes.

No offense to guys from the field but I also noticed that Engineers coming from the field tend to have a very narrow vision of a project. They tend to be very limited in a lot of areas: When it comes to life safety, specs, codes, controls, coordination, energy conservation, LEED documentation, renovation work, utility phasing, LCC, Psychrometris, Calculations, Cx specs, Cx plans, Legal language, report writing, etc.. they are just overwhelmed with the amount of work.

 

[317069]

Engineer is an engineer either here or there. it deppend on the person if he is acting as an engineer or not.

 

[scha0786]

My dad is a pipefitter. When I was in high school I would work during the summer for his contracting company. Since my dad was owner of the company I got to do a lot more than a support craft worker was licensed to do.

solder, cut pipe, measurements, hook up VAV coils, steam, threaded pipe. I really got a lot of knowledge from the detail side of things.

Then I went to college and learned how to sit on my butt and think about thinking about doing something, lol.

out of college I got hired by a consulting firm, worked there for like 5 years. Then I got hired by another firm, more pay etc. Then that firm sent me to Alaska to work in the Oil Fields, current job.

Eventually I want to step back into commissioning, I think I would be really happy there.

but still somedays I really miss working outside

 

[willard3]

Ahhhhh....value engineering.

I am a consulting Engimneer and have been for over 30 years and frequently do arbitration on projects that have been "value engineered".

Value engineering is where contractors make a project so inexpensive it doesn't work because he doesn't have the information the Engineer has.

 

[Drazen]

I has luck to be involved on both sides very early in careeer, so that help me to never "take side" but to try to view things from both prospectives whenever possible.

I also believe what 317 said "engineer is engineer" and engineer should apply the same principles, based on engineer's code of ethics, in all situations.

issues mentioned in posts really exist in practice and from what i see, that mostly come from people who spend too much time on one side only. I firmly believe that each and every engineer with say 10 years of practice should have at least 2 years "on the other side".

do not take my figures literally, but the more time you spend on one side only the more overconfident you become in sort of view for which you are unaware that it is too narrow. being in both types of shoes is the only real way to overcome that.

 

[dblyle]

I have to disagree with cry22. I'm a licensed PE and have worked on the contracting side for the past 10 years. Our firm is a design/build shop (HVAC only) and I can assure you our engineers are very aware of codes, calculations, etc. that cry22 mentions. I can also tell you that we spend a considerable amount of time helping "consulting firms" in system selection and determining "build-ability" of a system. The contractors in my area tend to keep the engineers out of trouble as the engineers have become lazy in their designs (you'd be amazed at what passes as "design" here in Houston, Tx area).
I do, however, understand cry22's frustration. I have also seen contractors (not a true engineer) offer "value engineering" to meet budget (something else I find consulting engineers are terrible at determining). I personally don't think it is the contractors role to offer clients "value engineering", but he should work with the design engineer to find better ways to do things.
Let's face it, a consulting engineer can't fit pipe or ductwork better than an experienced contractor, nor should the contractor overstep the design engineer - both should learn some mutual respect and tap into each others resources.
As for which is the better path - I can tell you projects go a lot smoother when a design engineer has had some time in the field learning how the systems are actually assembled.

 

[EEJaime]

Hello all,

I have been on the Consulting Engineering side for about 32 years. The firm I worked with for the first twenty years was strictly a consulting engineering firm. Although my specialization is Electrical, we were MEP Consultants. Since then I've been on my own and now consult for that firm as well as others. I have worked hand in hand with some of the very best Mechanical Engineers with a wide range of experience and knowledge. The past 5 years have seen a proliferation of Design-Build projects, so we have been partnering with Mechanical and Electrical Contractors to compete in this expanding facet of the design market. Many health care, state prison, utility, ports, intermodal facilities for our local ports here in southern California are extensively Design-Build.

I have worked in the same Consulting Engineering firm with some of the very best and some of the worst Mechanical Engineers that often leave me wondering how they ever got licensed or degreed.

I have also worked with a Mechanical Contractor who was also a Licensed Mechanical PE who was one of the sharpest individuals it has ever been my pleasure to work with. I think that although there are some historical reasons for the stereotypes that Contractor Design build projects are cheaply constructed and poorly designed. Ultimately the quality of the design and construction is a product of the professionalism and ethical bent of the Engineers whom design the systems-whether they work for the Consultant or for the Contractor. It is also critical that Contractors also recognize that there are very valid reasons why sometimes the least expensive solution is not necesarily the best solution.

This discussion has been raging for many, many years. It is not going to go away anytime soon. But I feel that if we can take the experience and knowledge that each side brings to the table and work cooperatively as a team, with mutual respect for "the other side of the table", it is possible to design safe, reliable, long-lived, well constructed and affordable facilities that can keep us all employed and our clients satisfied that they have a successful project. I have seen it work and have been lucky enough to be still working on Design-Build projects that enjoy both good Engineers and good Contractors.

Regards,
EEJaime