Controlling Asbestos in New Construction Materials 6

[WoodyPE]

Why would anybody want asbestos in their new construction materials when it isn't necessary?

The liability is on the property owner, and the regulations stop short of eliminating the problem from everyday building materials like floor tiles, insulation, etc.

Imported construction materials are more likely to contain asbestos.

Do any material manufacturing companies label their products as "asbestos free".

Is there a "green list" of suppliers?

 

[greenone]

What new materials are you finding asbestos in? What owners are asking for asbestos? Is this in the US?

 

[WoodyPE]

@greenone, I'm in the USA. I don't know what materials are truly safe, and it looks like we're getting false assurances. Asbestos related health-problems should be going down -- but they aren't. It's being ignored.

My question is this -- which new construction materials have a clean bill of health given that the end-use buyer is responsible for the asbestos? Mineralogists and physicians greatly disagree on the health risks while the EPA has inconsistent policies -- partly due to court decisions.

The mesothelioma risk for smokers exposed to asbestos could be as much as 90x greater than smokers not exposed. Reports are inconsistent. Consider that smokers are already about 5 times more likely to develop lung cancer than non-smokers. They've already sued the tobacco industry in class action lawsuits.

Given the risks, who wants to manufacture asbestos-containing construction materials? Consider that WR Grace went bankrupt in 2011 from asbestos litigation. That stopped them. What about others?

http://www.asbestos.com/companies/wr-grace.php

"Many of the asbestos-containing products manufactured by Grace were intended for use in the construction industry. Aside from specialty building materials, the asbestos-containing products manufactured by the company also included fireproofing materials, plaster, and roofing and deck materials, as well as additives for concrete and cement."

"Many of the products the company manufactured were destined to be exported, taking advantage of the company's wide-ranging interests around the globe."

 

[bimr]

From Wikipedia:

Most products manufactured today do not contain asbestos. In the industrialized world, asbestos was phased out of building products mostly in the 1970's with most of the remainder phased out by the 1980's. Asbestos containing building materials in residences includes a variety of products, such as: stiple used in textured walls and ceilings; drywall joint filler compound; asbestos contaminated vermiculite, vinyl floor tile; vinyl sheet flooring; window putty; mastic; cement board; furnace tape; and stucco. Asbestos was widely used in roofing materials, mainly corrugated asbestos cement roof sheets and asbestos shingles sometimes called transite. Other sources of asbestos containing materials include fireproofing and acoustic materials.

 

[hokie66]

What leads you to think that new construction materials contain asbestos?

 

[WoodyPE]

@bmir, I thought the same thing, but asbestos was never phased out, and substitute materials are currently available. "New uses" have been banned -- that's all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos

"In 1989 the EPA issued the Asbestos Ban and Phase Out Rule which was subsequently overturned in the case of Corrosion Proof Fittings v. EPA, 947 F.2d 1201 (5th Cir. 1991). This ruling leaves many consumer products that can still legally contain trace amounts of asbestos. For a clarification of products which legally contain asbestos, read the EPA's clarification statement.[86]"

The EPA's so-called "clarification statement" does everything but settle the matter:

http://toxics.supportportal.com/lin...rned-about-asbestos-in-the-building-materials

"you may learn more about whether the replacement materials you intend to install might possibly contain asbestos by reading the product labels, calling the manufacturer, or by asking if your retailer can provide you with the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product(s) in question."

Therefore, asbestos is not legally excluded from NEW construction materials. It looks like 100% asbestos is legal. A manufacturing company can produce all the asbestos construction materials they want, then sell it to end users that are unaware. The asbestos materials are the sole responsibility of the end-users by law, and ignorance of the problem is no defense in court. That's how the system works.

 

[WoodyPE]

"What leads you to think that new construction materials contain asbestos?"

The EPA leads me to believe that. They warned me to check all new materials for asbestos.

 

[WoodyPE]

@ Hokie66,

from the EPA FAQs:

"Since asbestos was banned, do I need to be worried about products on the market today containing asbestos?

On July 12, 1989, the EPA issued a final rule under Section 6 of the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) banning most asbestos-containing products in the United States. In 1991, the rule was vacated and remanded by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. As a result, most of the original ban on the manufacture, importation, processing, or distribution in commerce for most of the asbestos-containing product categories originally covered in the 1989 final rule was overturned. Only the bans on corrugated paper, rollboard, commercial paper, specialty paper, and flooring felt and any new uses of asbestos remained banned under the 1989 rule. Although most asbestos containing products can still legally be manufactured, imported, processed and distributed in the U.S., according to the U.S. Geological Survey, the production and use of asbestos has declined significantly."

Asbestos mining (in the USA) declined and that's good for the health of the miners. On the other hand, the asbestos ban on imports was overturned. The EPA can't stop someone from importing end-use materials loaded with asbestos. American Corporations that produce asbestos-tainted materials aren't liable for the end-use either. It's a moral hazard. I asked a lawyer -- even homeowners are liable for their own asbestos. It doesn't matter who made it or who sold it to them.

Someone please tell me why they believe new building materials are "asbestos free", "safe", and free of litigation risks. Thank you.

 

[bimr]

The EPA is not responsible for regulating the amount of asbestos in products. Since the EPA is not responsible, why would you expect the EPA to provide you with information about asbestos in products?

The EPA is only responsible for developing and enforcing regulations necessary to protect the general public from exposure to airborne contaminants that are known to be hazardous to human health.

Product liability laws will cause asbestos containing products to be removed from the marketplace.

Should you find asbestos in one of your building materials, feel free to sue the supplier.

If you have concerns about asbestos in products, you can also require the supplier to certify that the product in question is asbestos free.

 

[Ron]

WoodyPE....asbestos is not used in new construction materials in the US. No manufacturer wants to go through what Manville and others had to go through. The EPA should not be your definitive choice of technical info.

 

[WoodyPE]

@ Ron,

Name one new building material that can not legally contain asbestos and please show me the regulation. I've spent many hours to find even one. Can I pay you for this?

 

[WoodyPE]

I guess I'll just keep repeating the facts until somebody finally understands the concerns. I'm not alone with the concerns. That's why I came here.

The Washington State Department of Labor and Industries

Hazard Alert: Asbestos Hazards in New Materials

*****Asbestos Containing Materials Legal for Sale****

The following products containing asbestos may be sold in the United States. This list is not comprehensive.

Automotive brakes and other friction materials
Machinery gaskets
Asphaltic and bitumous roofing materials and pipeline coatings
Cement asbestos products
Mineral products with naturally occurring contamination
Raw asbestos for use in manufacturing

Asbestos hazards may or may not be labeled

Product information on labels and Material Safety Data Sheets will often have information on asbestos content when it is greater than 1% of a material. However, the lack of asbestos information on the label may not always mean of a lack of asbestos. When handling products that may contain asbestos, the presence of asbestos should be assumed unless the manufacturer or an appropriate testing laboratory has specifically certified the material as asbestos free.
The asbestos content of a material and airborne asbestos in the work environment are not directly related. Factors such as how well the asbestos fibers are bound in the material and work practices can affect exposure levels. Airborne exposure monitoring is often the only way to determine the actual exposure level.

Building and facility owners are required to assess asbestos hazards

Building and facility owners are required to assess asbestos hazards prior to renovation, maintenance or demolition work. A written report must be given to contractors and others who work around any asbestos project. This requirement applies to newly installed materials as well"

The asbestos content of a material and airborne asbestos in the work environment are not directly related. The statement seems straight forward enough to me. The regulations are based on concentration which is not a safe assumption according to the hazard alert. Consider that 35 million residences already have Zonolite insulation containing asbestos, the owners are liable, and they're exposed to carcinogens. I'm glad it's not me.

 

[WoodyPE]

"Should you find asbestos in one of your building materials, feel free to sue the supplier."
I discussed this with an environmental lawyer today. You will lose in court. The law says so.

 

[WoodyPE]

"If you have concerns about asbestos in products, you can also require the supplier to certify that the product in question is asbestos free."

Very good -- that idea has merits. You'll need a long-term record-keeping system, and someone to maintain that system. It sounds like library work.

 

[WoodyPE]

According to the Washington hazard alert: "the presence of asbestos should be assumed unless the manufacturer or an appropriate testing laboratory has specifically certified the material as asbestos free."

Therefore, a property owner should assume any new building material contains asbestos unless someone can prove otherwise. Manufacturing companies make mistakes. It sounds like the only bullet-proof approach is to test the construction materials. This is getting crazy. Why am I testing for asbestos to make sure it is safe? That's why you have regulations. Where are they?

 

[Ron]

I'll give you my opinion on the whole asbestos debacle....

1. Asbestos exposure for workers involved in producing ACM or in the installation of friable ACM was bad and created numerous health problems, most of which were not isolated to ACM alone. Manufacturers have been sued and have paid tremendous amounts of money and continue to pay. It would be ludicrous to think that they would further engage in such manufacturing. It makes no economic sense which is their driver.
2. Incidental asbestos exposure occurs daily for most people and the exposures are non-consequential. I'm reasonably sure that there has not been a case of asbestos health issues for incidental exposure to asbestos.
3. The removal of asbestos from many materials was a good thing. Did it go far enough? Perhaps/Perhaps not. Its effect is not reasonably quantifiable.
4. Does the allowance of asbestos in certain current materials place the public at risk? No. The "public" is not and has not been at risk from asbestos. The removal of asbestos from public buildings and schools was precautionary. ACM remains in many buildings and as those buildings are demolished, provisions are in place to prevent the release of asbestos fibers into the air.

Yes, there are materials that are labeled as "asbestos free". One common one is roof flashing cement.

 

[hokie66]

The following is a capsule summary of asbestos in Australia, which had/has a big problem because of the prevalence of asbestos cement building products, largely made by the Australian company James Hardie. While asbestos abatement in existing facilities continues to be an issue, I believe with some degree of confidence that new building products in this country have not contained asbestos since the 1980's. While the majority of asbestosis and mesothelioma sufferers were/are miners and James Hardie plant employees, a number of carpenters, insulators, and DIY renovators have also been confirmed with the diseases.

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/your-health/asbestos-related-diseases

 

[bimr]

Just do a google search for asbestos-free products:

https://www.google.com/#q=asbestos+free+products&start=40

Here is an example of what you will find:

"After 1970, Gold Bond Building Products were asbestos-free."

 

[WoodyPE]

Ron Said, "Manufacturers have been sued and have paid tremendous amounts of money and continue to pay. It would be ludicrous to think that they would further engage in such manufacturing. It makes no economic sense which is their driver".

Woody PE says: Ron, that's all at the manufacturing level and it has nothing to do with the end-use customer. To be honest, it makes no sense to manufacture ANYTHING in the USA anymore regardless of what it is, and it's leaving this country fast. So, when 3rd world countries manufacture asbestos contaminated goods -- who is going to tell us? Can you trust their building materials. I can tell you for certain as a mechanical engineer -- I DO NOT TRUST PROOF STRENGTH RATINGS ON FOREIGN MADE BOLTS. Should we expect anything better on asbestos-contaminated goods? How about the black mold contaminated wall-board from China? Consider that Russia is the #1 asbestos producing country in the world. Chernobyl met their standards. What's it to them if america gets their asbestos?

 

[WoodyPE]

@ hokie,

In the USA there is a James Hardie plant located very close to Virginia Tech.