Dealing with Bad Program/Project Managers 2

[MadMango]

I've worked with good and bad PMs at various stages of my career, and have hopefully been a decent one myself when needed. Currently I am at a position that requires a lot of design work and vendor coordination over 5-8 projects at a time. I am not alone in this work load, as it seems most in the office are also working on several concurrent projects. To save the collective "us" management has hired two PMs to help alleviate some of the burdens of organization.

Six weeks in, and I'm pretty sure everyone is in agreement that the PMs are causing more work, not reducing it. I've already had several talks with my supervisor and departmental VP. Their standard responses are they understand my concerns, but want me to give them more time. Our product development group has always been fast and lean when it comes to designing products, but now the PMs are introducing paper trails that are slowing the machine down.

Would you standby and watch things further collapse? Beyond talking to an executive officer, what other options do I have? I am not looking or willing to leave the company.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[MadMango]

I'll add that I am not against good documentation practices, but I am against unnecessary paperwork for parperwork's sake.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[casseopeia]

Sounds like you've got a similar situation that I have, only the paperwork isn't coming from the PM's. It's coming from the executive PM's. From what i can see, the executive PM's go around asking, "have you got that done yet and are you watching the budget." After putting in 10-11 hours a day, taking sick days so that my work doesn't count against my budget, and working at home until midnight, I've been tempted more than once to hold up my hands and ask them to count them and to let me know if any more than two ever spout out. Or say, "as long as I am talking to you, I am burning up budget and not getting the report done." I'm stating to hear a lot of out loud grumbling about TPS reports.

The more 'fixing' seems to just bring on more layers of internal management tasks and less time to get the deliverable out the door. To answer the question, I'd push for a no-holds-barred meeting of management and PM's to air the problems they have with roadblocks and bottlenecks. But don't hold your breath waiting to see things change. I'm just hoping for a better economy and more job openings.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[MikeHalloran]

Maybe the extra paperwork is actually a customer requirement/demand.
Maybe the PMs were inserted by customer demand, and the VP is trying to gather data to argue for dismissing them.
Maybe somebody up high thinks it will help in the long run.
Maybe they're preparing you for the paper hurricane that accompanies one of those absurd certification programs.
For whatever reason, 'fast and lean' is not a current goal.

You've expressed your concerns, and they've been acknowledged.

You can't do more than that without causing or catalyzing a change in your career path.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[SteveMartin]

Depending on their prior familiarity with your type of product and corporate culture, six weeks could be a short amount of time to expect the PMs to come fully up to speed and be useful contributors to efficiency. If that's the case I would have tried to insert them into 1-2 projects at a time instead of everything your group does all at once (which is what it sounds like has happenned). This of course is a decision in the past and probably not a reversible one.

Maybe you've tried this, but you don't mention what would be my first step (before talking to my superior or VP, probably before even talking to my co-workers): talk to the PMs. Tell them your concerns with what their requests do to your perceived efficiency, and try to work with them to find a middle ground that satisfies their needs and yours. As part of that, try to learn where they're coming from and if any of what they are pushing for while short term inconvenient actually has long-term gains.

Once you feel you've exhausted all options for incorporating the PMs into the existing efficient workflow and 'everyone' still agrees they do more harm than good approach the boss/VP again and ask what gives. If they still say 'give it time', ask how much time they feel is appropriate before they expect progress. Confirm this duration/date via a quick email summary of the conversation. Once that duration expires, if things are still bad reapproach the VP/boss and say 'now what'.

 

[MadMango]

SteveMartin, I did try to steer the PMs to a better work flow, to allow them to find the answers they needed without having to come to me. It works for a few days at a time.

My biggest complaint is that I try to put everything on the network so anyone can find it, and rely on email and tools at my disposal so I don't have to remember every detail, just where to find the info. That goes out the window when the PMs sit close enough to me to stroll over and ask me a question, where a majority of the time my response is, "Ok, yeah, I have that info. I'll shoot you an email so you'll have the network location." That's about as direct and subtle as I can possibly get. I guess I'll have to ride things out for another 6wks, then pose my concerns at their 90-day mark if things haven't improved.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[Latexman]

It could be much worse, you and the PMs could have different mother tongues and cultures.

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[spongebob007]

cass,

Not sure if I am incorrectly reading what you are writing, but are you actually saying that you are using sick time and/or working at home "off the clock" so that you are not over charging your project budget? I would be careful about that because it could be considered fraud.

Not sure if you are doing this on your own or by direction, but if my boss ever told me to use sick time for hours actually worked, or to work at home off the clock, the corporate ethics hotline number would be in my speed dial.

I refuse to work "off the clock" if it is for work, especially directly billable work, it gets charged. In fact, my company DOES consider performing directly billable tasks and not charging them to be a form of fraud, not much different than overcharging the customer.

 

[Murec]

From my experience, the main task of the PMs is to justify their own existence by mvoing around vast quantities of paper. Part of that is making other write the papers for them to move around. I always tried to ignoer them and do my work as much as possible.

 

[brandonbw]

I worked somewhere where this was happening with too many hands in the pot. Not PM's though. It was a small enough company (75), that I went directly to one of the owners constantly, to voice my concerns. The problem was slowly taken care of and projects became much less over budget.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil and Structural Engineering

http://bwengr.com

 

[KENAT]

Well you could try malicious compliance, be busy enough answering PM's answers and doing their paperwork that a few critical deadlines get missed. Sometimes working strictly to a system is the best way to prove it's broken. If you keep skirting the system to get things done, they may not realize, or at least not accept, that the system is broken.

Of course this could backfire, either they just blame you for not working hard enough, or take it as a sign you need even more PM's and hire 2 PM's for every engineer or something like that.

Another option is to determine what balls can be dropped without causing harm to things that actually matter, malicious non compliance if you like.

The thing I dislike about Project Management and especially the related documentation systems, procedures, processes... is that all to often they forget that PM is a means to an end, not the end itself.

If you have a project that comes in early, under budget and exceeds performance requirement by an appropriate margin then the chances of anyone asking to see the project documentation folders etc. are slim to none (it would be nice to think someone might look to see what went right, but it seems that only happens places which have unicorn parking).

However, once it's late, over budget and doesn't meet requirements everyone wants to know why the TPS reports weren't up to date...

Hence, project management paperwork etc. ends up being an ass covering device rather than a useful tool to get things done on time, to budget and meeting requirement.

Rant over, for now.

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[MadMango]

I have just discovered that one of the new PMs has been introducing Scope Creep into some projects without discussing with upper engineering management. Since when do PMs get to make engineering changes? I thought they purely dealt with schedules and cost? Deep breaths...

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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[csd72]

I had a job a few years back where we were always getting harrassed by the PM's to meet unachievable targets (that had been promised by marketing).

I had one of the PM's try to shortcut the system by printing off a half finished drawing from the server and giving it to the client.

A week or so later he had the gaul to come to me and complain about the errors which the client had picked up.

I said 'is there a signature on that drawing?'
'No'
'If theres no signature than I do not take any responsibility' and walked away.
They gave me the nickname teflon shoulders after that one.

 

[SteveMartin]

re: csd72

That behavior is why ONLY our engineers have access to the server with in-process drawings on it. Actually the specific behavior for us was purchasing sending the unreleased drawings out, but same idea. Heck, now my boss (an EE) can't get access to my drawings until they're released without going through me or one of the other mechanical engineers.

 

[moon161]

Cass, worked my share of 12 hour sundays, and sometimes it gets hard before it gets easy, but don't make a habit of it, I fear you're planting bad seeds.

1. Working over budget, on vacation & personal time validates bad budgets & procedures with success, and could make your situation worse, because you got it done so quickly, you know.

2. Even if sustainable, it will not last. If not ended carefully, it may end badly.
a. You get a better job, your boss has to find, hire & bring aboard another engineer.
b. You burn out, quality of your work suffers, your on the job experience suffers. You won't learn much from fighting fires & playing catch up.
c. It may all come crashing down- schedules become more aggressive based on previous illusory success, and reality forces you to work at a simply human level=big schedule gaps, then feces hit the impeller.
d. Legal probs for your boss.

3. So talk to HR, Boss, EAP, someone, about this.

 

[lacajun]

Years ago a mid level manager's famous words were, "I hear you." That was his way of letting you know he got the message but was going to do nothing so whoever was talking to him needed to shut up. Maybe that's part of what you face, since they hear you but want to give it more time.

cass, I'm with moon161.