Decimal marker - EU GD&T practices

[XL83NL]

Yesterday I had a discussion with our CAD drawing department, which Im getting more involved with lately mainly on the GDT aspect.

I asked them what our current decimal marker is; the dot. (We are in the Netherlands by the way). I told that most (EU) standards, if not all, use the comma as the decimal marker, e.g. EN ISO 129-1. Our company is used to having the dot as the decimal marker in most or all of our internal documents, I believe.

If the comma is the default decimal marker in most standards and industries, I think we should at least consider this. However, I know the amount of the shit Ill receive if I would even propose to cosnider this. So, the put the question different; does anyone know of an EU standard that defines the dot as the deciaml marker?

PS: our CAD department makes all sorts of drawings, but mostly PID's, isometrics, layout drawings, part drawings with tolerances, and pressure vessel drawings.

 

[GrouchyStressedTensePoor]

I know of the british standard, which I believe is based on EN standards but actually I cant find a specific reference in the relevant section. However, for your interest:

BS 8888:2017 Section 4.6.2. Metric Values:

"The decimal marker shall be a comma."

Although despite this being in BS 8888 I have never seen a british drawing that uses a comma as the decimal marker, although I thought it was widespread on the continent.

GSTP

Graduate Mechanical Design Engineer
UK

 

[TED7]

ISO 129-1 isn't an EN standard (at the moment, CEN identifies it as prEN ISO 129-1). In the UK it's BS ISO 129-1, France has NF ISO 129-1 and Germany has DIN ISO 129-1 signifying those nations have adopted it as their standard. The UK has BS 8888 which is a "container" for want of a better word for BS ISO 129-1.

That being said, as BS ISO 129-1 exists, that means it is the UK standard for decimal marking (as does BS 8888). That there is no EN standard means there may be a nation within the CEN member states that has their own domestic standard (i.e. hasn't adopted ISO 129-1 as their national standard).

If you're working in the UK and to ISO standards (not ASME as some pressure vessel manufacturers will), the correct marking is a comma and a dot is non-compliant.

I think the issue stems from BS 308 using the dot and that being the standard many draughtsmen were brought up on.

While you're falling out with the drawing department, the thousands marker is a space (76 543,21 not 76,543.21) as the comma obviously serves a different purpose. I hit that when I tried to review the use of the comma once.

 

[dgallup]

I'm in the US but I've been working for/with British, French & German companies to company and/or ISO standards for 35 years and have used a comma 100% for a decimal marker.

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[XL83NL]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

@GSTP: regardless of the brexit, the British standards have, to my understanding/view, always been considered different than the 'mainland' standards we have in Europe, like DIN etc. DIN standards are still quite common, even though most of them have been replaced by EN standards for EN-work. Working to BS is not common for us.
@TED7: yeah I was a bit too quick with referring to ISO 129-1 as being EN ISO. We have the NEN ISO 1291:2018 (NEN = Netherlands). Ducth draughtman have, I would think, been braught up with EN or NEN standards, not BS. Ill ask some older guys with dozens of years of construction drawing experience what their experience is.
@dgallup; did you use/follow/had to comply with a specific EN, ISO or other standard, or is it just you didnt knew better than using the comma as the decimal marker for 'EU'-work?

 

[Kedu]

The decimal marker is now a comma (i.e. dimensions that were previously written as 4.0 ± 0.1 must now be written as 4,0 ± 0,1).
The full stop is no longer used as a decimal marker on a specification, and the comma is not used as a "thousands" separator.
Where listed items would previously have been separated by a comma, a semi-colon may be used , and in place of the comma as a "thousands" separator, a simple space is recommended (i.e. 20,000,000 becomes 20 000 000).

Excerpt from an ISO training material based on the differences between BS 8888 / ISO and BS 308

 

[dgallup]

When I worked for the Brits they had their own drafting manual that specified the comma. When I worked for the French they claimed "they all went to the same schools and were all taught the same things so they didn't need any damn standards". They could not agree on GD&T interpretation but they all used commas. I never worked for a German company but we supplied all the major car companies there and all their drawings used commas and all the drawings I supplied to them used commas. In fact, almost everything I've ever done has been in metric and used commas even for USA consumption to ISO standards. I hate working in imperial units. Don't get me started on using the number of decimal places to determine default tolerances.

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[XL83NL]

thanks dgallup

When I worked for the French they claimed "they all went to the same schools and were all taught the same things so they didn't need any damn standards".

Lol. We have similar experience when working with the French. Strange people ...

 

[Caloooomi]

Lol. We have similar experience when working with the French. Strange people ...

I instantly know when I have an email from a French person/company as it's SURNAME, Firstname...