Definition of 1 X 10 -3 Torr Range 1

[allenchu]

The best vacuum level I need is 1 X 10 -3 Torr.

But I jsut found that I made a mistake, it was written as " 1 X 10 -3 Torr Range" in the contract.

Will someone heip to let me know what the difference in between?

Does the supplier still have to meet the best vacuum level?

if yes, where I can find the evidence or party to support it to eliminate the dispute.

Thank you.

 

[VEBill]

This isn't really the correct forum, but I don't see one that fits.

Requirement "1 X 10 -3 Torr"
Contract "1 X 10 -3 Torr Range"

The difference is obviously that the contract includes the word "range", and that muddles the requirement.

Have you confirmed that there's an actual dispute? Any reasonable supplier would make sure that their solution covers a range including the value mentioned and better. A fantastic supplier would have requested clarification during the bid. Even a mediocre supplier will work with you to find a solution. Sometimes the price change to get a slightly better solution is so minor that it isn't worth the time it takes to argue about it.

 

[allenchu]

VE1BLL,
Yes, we have the dispute now. the actual measurement is 7.03 X 10 -3 Torr, supplier insist this meet the specification. He said the "1 X 10 -3 Torr Range" means "1 to 9.9 X 10 -3 Torr" is the contract specification range.
I thought that " the best vacuum is 1 X 10 -3 Torr Range" can be said the minimum requrement is "1 X 10 -3 Torr, no maximum requrement", can I say so?
As I know that if supplier has to meet my actual reuirement, a extra pump and a revision work is needed. The supplier doesn't want to pay for it.
This is going to a legal issue, the lawyer ask me to find the evidence to prove my original requirement.
This is the reason that I ask someone can help me to let me know where to find the evidence/support.

thank you.

 

[IRstuff]

I think you're SOL; although you could probably pay someone enough to argue your case. I think that the vendor made a plausibly believable position that anything from 1.0 to 9.9 mTorr was acceptable.

I would, however, argue that the vendor took the truck through the gap that you left in the contract, and didn't look back. Had he done due diligence, he should have asked why you didn't specify "vacuum less than 10 mTorr" in your contract. But, that's pretty hard to prove conclusively.

Someone that sleazy is not someone I would work with again.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[VEBill]

I'm not an expert in high vacuum, but I do know that the ultimate degree of hard vacuum depends on the entire system (not just the pump). I assume that you've confirmed that it's his pump that's the limiting factor; not any of a hundred possible issues in the rest of your system. Assuming so..,


His interpretation proposes that the word "range" allows an arbitrary 10:1 variation in one particular direction; the direction that just happens to favor him... That's a stretch.

Ultimately his pump doesn't meet the requirements. Send him back his pump. Find a new supplier. Let the lawyers argue about how much "restocking fee" (if any) might be appropriate.

I've dealt with many suppliers. None that would pull a stunt like that.

PS: Don't take it personally. The only way to write a perfect, bullet-proof spec is to write many imperfect versions over years, slowly closing off the weak points with each revision.

 

[VEBill]

Perhaps there's an alternate viewpoint.

If you're only being asked to pay fair price for a 7 mTorr pump (compare your cost to the market), then it's understandable that he doesn't want to supply a 1 mTorr pump for the same price.

Even so, you might have to rerun the RFQ process again to give other vendors another chance too.


Schedule, Cost, Performance - choose any two.

 

[itsmoked]

Back to the learning... Try to get the vendor to meet you somewhere on price. It will happen much faster and for less money than if you get a bunch of blood sucking lawyers into the mix. Remember you risk paying both side's ticks if you loose. Not to mention the year it will take.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[ScottyUK]

Sounds like you messed up and are trying shift the blame on to the supplier. "Maybe" the supplier should have raised a TQ when he realised the spec was poorly written, but "definitely" you should spell out what you want clearly and accurately, which you didn't do. Next time get the spec right.


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