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Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies

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cjabraham

cjabraham

Mechanical
Dec 2, 2011
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Over at CSU Fullerton we have a Dell T5500 workstation that the FSAE team is using to design a formula car for competition. We are having issues with manipulating the top assembly of our car. The problem is that when we try to move parts as constrained by their mates, the system locks up and it takes several minutes to calculate a simple movement of an a-arm, for example. Suppressing everything except the parts we are moving solves the problem at the moment, but this machine SHOULD be capable of much more than we are getting out of it. The top assembly is divided into an organized system of sub-assemblies that are resolved as flexible, and we have tried settings such as large assembly mode and resolve to lightweight without much luck.

We have tried bringing down the number of cores from 24 to 12, which helped a great amount. This is also the only "large assembly" we have opened on this computer so there is nothing to compare it against to determine if it is the computer or the model itself.

we are running Solidworks 2011/12 educational version.

Computer Specs:
Dell Precision T5500
Intel Xeon CPU E6545 @ 2.40GHz 6 cores, 6 logical
54GB physical RAM
GeForce Quadro 5000 2.5GB with latest driver

Assembly Specs:
370 parts
65 sub-assemblies
max depth 4
25 top level components
93 top level mates


 
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OS is windows 7

That link seemed to pertain more to what to look for when buying a new machine rather than optimizing settings. I'm going to go ahead a say that a total of 24 cores, 54GB of physical RAM, and a $1700 video card designed for CAD software should make this computer extremely capable.
 
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GeForce Quadro 5000 2.5GB with latest driver
Click to expand...
There is no such card! Is it a "GeForce 5000" or "Quadro 5000".

While the Quadro series cards are suitable for 3D CAD, the GeForce series cards are not.

When opened separately, do all the sub-assys work correctly and quickly?

Are you also using Limit Mates? They can be problematic when combined with Flexible assys.
 
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In the first post i included a picture of what the model looks like. In the most simple terms, the assembly is divided into these sub assemblies:
-One A-Arm/Suspension/Upright/Wheel assembly for each corner of the car (a total of 4)
-Engine Assembly
-Pedal Assembly (not shown)
-Gearbox Assembly
-Body Panel assembly
-misc. parts including mounting brackets, the chassis, the seat, and the steering column.

None of the assemblies have more than 40 mates, and the mating scheme is simple. For the most part, a part is mated using a concentric mate, then either a coincident or width mate. the sub-assemblies have no problems opened on their own. I'm not shooting down the suggestion of the mating scheme being the problem, but the assembly is very "this definitely goes there, that definitely goes there," so i want save changing the mating structure for last.

To make it clear what i'm looking for: I'm searching for a magical setting in Solidworks, the NVIDIA control panel, BIOS, or somewhere in the depths of windows 7 that most people dont think of.

When we first got this computer, solidworks could barely handle a part. We learned that because we were running so many cores, solidworks could not decide which core to run its calculations on, and so we reduced the numbers of cores we had from 24 to 12 as recommended by a solidworks representative. POOF it worked. I'm hoping for a similar solution.
 
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When we first got this computer, solidworks could barely handle a part. We learned that because we were running so many cores, solidworks could not decide which core to run its calculations on, and so we reduced the numbers of cores we had from 24 to 12 as recommended by a solidworks representative. POOF it worked
Click to expand...
That is very strange because SW is basically single threaded. Multiples cores are only used for modes like FEA & Rendering.

However, try setting the priority of one core (via the Task Manager) to the SLDWORKS.exe process.
 
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Some information at may help clarify.

Does SolidWorks make use of multiple and/or dual core processors?

SolidWorks actually uses multi-thread technology for certain functions. This is different from when we talk about multi-cores. Multi-core describes the CPU. It is the operating system that ultimately decides what Core each Thread runs on. Windows 7 is said to utilize multiple processors more efficiently compared to Vista with XP being even less so.

Only certain functions of SolidWorks can actually utilize multi-thread technology. Running simulation analysis, rendering images, file opening and user interface activities (redraw, dialog boxes) can take advantage of multiple cores as there are multiple calculations that can be determined simultaneously. When opening documents in SolidWorks 2011, a view-only state is provided where you can zoom, rotate, etc while the actual file and its components are opened in the background. Once the file is fully opened, the environment is changed to the normal editing state. In contrast, the solving process used for parametric modeling is by nature linear and can only be run on a single thread. Consequently this cannot be spread across multiple processors and one core will take the brunt of the calculations.

In general, rebuild times depend on the speed of the CPU, simulation analysis and image rendering depends on having more cores and RAM, and file opening mainly depends on the hard drive speed.

Keep in mind that the fastest machine is no substitute for good design practices. Minimizing in-context references and utilizing lightweight modes will reduce the load on the processor.
Click to expand...
 
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CBL said:
That is very strange because SW is basically single threaded. Multiples cores are only used for modes like FEA & Rendering.
Click to expand...
Used to be true, isn't anymore. SW makes extensive use of at least four cores frequently. My opinion is that this is the geometry solver or the surfacing routines. Running up to 4 cores does make a noticable difference.

Now to diagnosing the OPs problems.

Before you go too far, let's see just how fast your machine is. Google benchmark punch holder site:solidmuse.com download the punchholder benchmark, run it and post the results here.


cjabraham said:
Assembly Specs:
370 parts
65 sub-assemblies
max depth 4
25 top level components
93 top level mates
Click to expand...
93 top level mates is a bit on the high end.
There is a lot of swoopy stuff in the model.

The top assembly is divided into an organized system of sub-assemblies that are resolved as flexible, and we have tried settings such as large assembly mode and resolve to lightweight without much luck.
Click to expand...
SW has improved performance over the years by avoiding rebuilding of lower levels, however what you are doing forces SW into taking the time to update the flexible assemblies. The fact that it rebuilds without problem when much of the model is suppressed suggests mating scheme and including too much detail. The order of mates can heavily influence rebuild time.

You didn't mention if there is in-context modeling or heavy use of equations. Those can also affect performance. If there is a lot of incontext, just lock the references so they are not recalculated every time. Then you can go back and unlock them if changes need to be made.

When you rebuild the assembly, watch the status bar as it rebuilds for any steps that seem to hang. Fiddle with those components' order in the feature tree.

TOP
CSWP, BSSE
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
 
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(CBL):
That is very strange because SW is basically single threaded. Multiples cores are only used for modes like FEA & Rendering.
Click to expand...

Used to be true, isn't anymore. SW makes extensive use of at least four cores frequently.
Click to expand...

That's news to me and, I suspect, many others.
Since which version, and for which functions?
 
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Really Paul, that would be a surprise to me and many others as Kelvin says. What specific parts of SolidWorks are you seeing this?

The key line in Kelvin's quote from the Javelin website.

Keep in mind that the fastest machine is no substitute for good design practices. Minimizing in-context references and utilizing lightweight modes will reduce the load on the processor.
Click to expand...

I suspect there several flexible assemblies involved with the OP's model.

Cheers,

Anna Wood
SW2011 SP5, Windows 7 x64
 
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Folks,

I don't want to get off topic but I have built a couple machines in the last six months and benchmarked them using Anna's benchmark. One was AMD and one was Sandy Bridge (48s). What CBL's quote says is absolutely true. In solving the parametric relations SW is single threaded. That's just half the story because your quote is only talking about the involvement of the D-Cubed relation solver which is now the biggest bottleneck SW has. But, geometry solving does use multiple cores and the OP's assembly has swoopy stuff that exercises the geometry engine heavily. Drawings also use multiple cores. I really wish when people make these statements they actually try to confirm what they are saying.

The OP's comment that having 12 threads slow down the machine is also very understandable. It comes from bus contention on the CPU. Recent tests of multicore processors has shown that past four cores there is little speedup of servers.

I am running on an AMD motherboard that allows me to tweak all kinds of things. I can run on one to six cores, speed up and slow down the busses both on and off the cpu chip and generally zero in of bottlenecks.

At any rate, until the OP runs the benchmark we won't even know what his problem really is.

PS I can run the Punch Holder benchmark on a AMD Athlon XP3000 in 19s. I do this by reordering the feature tree and removing all relations. I can do this because I have a macro that exactly reproduces the model. Relations is a big hit. Without these optimizations that machine takes 600s. This just goes to show you that SW can be blazing fast if you shut down certain functionality and use some of the tools. Brains can still replace expensive hardware if used correctly.

PPS D Cubed's relation solver can't be avoided in an assembly unless components are position mated and fixed. This is not such a good practice.

TOP
CSWP, BSSE
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
 
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One aspect of the OS has not been stated, though system specs would lead to an assumed answer.

Are you runnig Win7-64bit and SW 64bit code?



"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli
 
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Punch Holder test rebuild time = 73.76s

From what I can see from other user's results, this seems a bit high, but i just could be having to much faith in the hardware in this computer

OS and SW are both 64 bit versions.
 
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I tried opening the entire assembly on my Dell XPS 15" and the results made me very confused. The assembly performs much better on this computer than it does the workstation. I can have everything unsuppressed and the model moves just fine. no errors, no freezes, no crashes.

Dell XPS 15":
Intel i5 2.30GHz (vs Intel Xeon E6545 @ 2.40GHz)
4GB RAM (vs 54GB physical RAM)
GeForce GT 525M 1GB (vs NVIDIA Quadro 5000)

Punch Holder test: 85.94s

I should mention the Laptop is running a licensed version of SW 2012, as opposed to the educational 2011 version on the workstation.

Also, because the workstation is a campus computer, the students that use it for modeling don't sign in as an administrator. Is it possible that the performance loss is due to not running SW as an administrator?
 
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Oh, that jogged a cog in the old brain. Had a similar problem when teaching Solid Edge at a university. The IT folks had a virus checker running that had to scan each read and write SolidEdge did. When I convinced them that those files weren't a threat they created an exception and SolidEdge ran much faster and stopped crashing. See if your IT folks are scanning .sldprt, .sldasm and .slddrw files. For that matter, they might have a look at how they are scanning anything that SW might read or write.

I fully understand their thinking, it was just not conducive to instruction to have the software constantly losing the students work.

TOP
CSWP, BSSE
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
 
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I didn't see this asked anywhere...are you sure you're using the correct video card driver? This does not mean the latest driver from Dell or Nvidia, but an approved driver from SolidWorks? Every Dell I've ever had new came loaded with the wrong graphics driver. Also, I had one Dell that had to have its Bios updated to take care of graphics glitches. The fact that you're having to wait for the system to update could be the card choking while redrawing. Just a thought.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Director of Engineering
M9 Defense
My Blog
 
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