Design Responsiblity

[WaterChemDegin]

Two part question.

1. On a design build job with a consulting engineer and contractor who has the ultimate responsilbity for the design of the system? If the consulting engineer has put his PE stamp on the drawings is he not responsible for the design of the system? If items listed on the specification, but not show on the contract drawings and the drawings are incomplete is it his responsiblity or the contractors and equipment suppliers responsiblity to correct the system design?

2. I personally do work on both sides of the fence as a contractor and consulting engineer responsible for the design and stamping of the drawings. Just a general question has anyone else noticed a recent increase in incomplete designs from design engineering companies?

 

[IRstuff]

Seems to me that whoever stamps the design is the EOR and the resposible engineer. How can it be interpreted otherwise?

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Ron]

This trend, I believe, was started by Architects. They will provide a "less than complete" set of plans, with the developer/contractor forcing their subs to "design" the system based on intent. Bad idea, but done often.

 

[rbulsara]

The engineer is responsible for his/her design, no doubt about that! However what is 'design', is subject to interpretation. The devil is in the details. Generalization is dangerous.

I also agree with Ron and would even add that many engineering 'large' firms also (whose clients generally are architects) also practice putting out incomplete drawings in order to meet schedule and 'save' money. Not only that, they would remove the design engineer from the project and a "field coordinator" keeps fighting with contractors (or the other way around) to see the job through. This is sad and appalling, but true.

Most owners also get what they pay for. Especially when they hire a firm after being dazzled by their marketing team and only to get the project designed by 'designers' (not engineers) under paltry supervision of experienced engineers. This is common with large A/E firms. I really do NOT feel sorry for those Owners.

Coming back to the details and in defense of well meaning engineers, they are responsible for what they design, nothing more , nothing less. Not everything specified has to be on drawings, nor everything on drawings has to be in the specifications. Specs and drawings complement each other. Contractors are also responsible for delivering a complete project.

Drawings are just instruments to convey the concept, layout and quality of the products. They cannot be a construction manual. Many contractor wants to see their construction details on the drawings which is unreasonable as well.

Also the level of details depends on the method of delivery chosen. Classic design-bid-construct documents would have more details and CYA notes than those that are part of a design/build projects, where the contractor takes on more responsibility.

Unless you post specific details or an example, it is difficult to say who is at fault and whether the disputed items falls under 'design' responsibility.





Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[JLSeagull]

A design contractor corporation may be responsible for a project. An individual engineer may be responsible for the design based upon a stamped drawing or specification.

How big is the project? I work in the hydrocarbon business. No individual is responsible for a refinery or offshore platform. Perhaps a single individual can be responsible for a 50-foot square pole barn.

 

[BigInch]

JLS, Somebody is singing off on the drawings. Isn't there a signature block for the project manager. He's the man.

If items listed on the specification, but not show on the contract drawings and the drawings are incomplete is it his responsiblity or the contractors and equipment suppliers responsiblity to correct the system design?

If the drawings and specifications are part of the design included in the engineer's scope of work, the engineer is responsible to correct the design.

Items listed in the specifications, but not shown on the drawings are often determined by the order of precedence stated in the contract. It is typically such that the specifications preside over the drawings, however I have seen contracts where drawings take precedence.

I haven't noticed a change in the drawings, but there do seem to be more and more specifications and standards included by reference in the contracts as the years pass.

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"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[RVSWA]

The recession has sent me looking for work outside my office. I have been acting as a "Field Coordinator" of sorts and in my case I'm pleased that the Engineering firm that designed the building has been the only reliable party both through their drawings and consultation. The remaining parties have all been a monumental challenge. Often times though I have clients come to my office with their complaints of their last Engineer. In the beginning I used to think "Great that's my competition, this should be easy..." but in reality, society should be able to look to Engineers in general and expect to be taken care of... I feel like some day, we are going to end up the side kicks in Lawyer jokes.

 

[brandoncdg]

We like the idea of our plans to be legible and have enough information to be considered construction drawings. Kind of like what you see in front of you, you can build. Isn't that what a set of plans is intended for? Anything else is artwork with a fancy engineering stamp.

CDG, Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading in the Los Angeles area

http://www.CivilDevelopmentGroup.com

 

[RoyTyrell]

"...I feel like some day, we are going to end up the side kicks in Lawyer jokes..."

HAHA! that day is already here - only we don't make the same money.

 

[ScottyUK]

A comment on Rafiq's observation that "Many contractor wants to see their construction details on the drawings which is unreasonable as well."

If the client wants certain details to be executed in a certain way then he needs to specify how he wants them done. If there's only one approved method of construction or of installation - perhaps as stated by the manufacturer of a piece of plant, or as listed in an industry or client standard - then Rafiq's comment is valid. If there are many 'acceptable' methods of producing an end result which meet the technical requirements but the client has one preferred method then the client can't complain if it is not clearly called out on a drawing or in a spec.

I'd rather see a detailed spec and additional drawings than leave the decision up to a contractor because left to their own decisions they will take the cheapest, easiest solution even though it probably won't be the best long-term interests of the client who has to live with whatever the contractor leaves behind.


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