Design Reuse Fee

[spats]

I'm curious to know what the concensus is out there about structural design reuse fees.

As an example, I am doing a proposal for 12-unit condominium buildings above parking (4-story total), where there will be three identical buildings. The architect wants me to give a fee for the first building only, with reuse fees on the other two buildings. All that's involved in the reuse is changing the title blocks and signing & sealing. Of course, the liability and reponsibility for the two repeats is the same as the original.

In the few instances where I've encountered this in the past, I had settled on a 50% reuse fee, and didn't have any problems. In this case, however, I get the impression the architect is expecting much less.

Another way of looking at it is to say "what would my fee be if they were constructing all three buildings at one time ?". I might have three times the munber of sheets, but not much in the way of additional effort, but again there is the liability (especially condos). Many times I set my fees based not just on the effort involved, but as a percentage of the cost of the building. Based on that senario, the fee would not be discounted at all.

I would appreciate any and all opinions.

 

[archeng59]

trying to answer this quickly without creating a novel. this is a difficult question to answer, because the liability issue is huge in my opinion. the re-use fee should not be based on how long it takes to change the title block, and that's typically what the architect and developers wants to base the fee on. 50% seems low to me, but I'm not willing to take the risks on multiple buildings constructed with my seal and signature without getting compensated for it. A doctor performs the same operation on multiple patients, but doesn't discount the fee significantly because he has already done it previously. Why should engineers reduce their fees for that same argument? in my opinion, because architects ask us to and we (as a group) agree because we want to work. I don't do these types of projects unless I feel comfortable that I'm getting adequately compensated for the risks I'm taking.

 

[AggieYank]

One thing to keep in mind is that the only things you won't have to re-do three times are the construction documents.

Checking shop drawings, site visits, possible construction fixes (RFI, contractor screw-ups), and most importantly liability will exist as if they were three separate buildings.

In a similiar case, my firm designed two schools which were essentially identical. Our CD fee was something like 120% of the CD cost for one school. Our CA (shop drawings, RFI's, site visits, etc) was 200% of the CA cost for one school.

If I was in your position I would shoot for 25% of the CD cost for each additional unit, plus 100% of the CA cost for each additional unit.

 

[spats]

Essentially it comes down to "how much is work, and how much is liability".

"25%" suggests that liability is only worth 25% of the design fee. Somehow I think it's worth more!

Good comments archeng59 & AggieYank

 

[dik]

Typically use 1/2 fee for second reuse and 1/3 fee for third reuse and beyond... tempered with any changes that might be necessary due to different loadings/soils.

Dik

 

[jjeng2]

All good approaches. I like the idea of breaking out a price for the drawings and for the shop dwgs, RFI's, etc. I would go with the 50% for second, 33% for third, etc. on the dwgs and 100% for administration stuff. When considering liability, I seem to recall a specific question about if I did this type of thing on every prof. liability insurance application I have ever filled out.

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

This re-use fee is another way we finally cut each others throats. I would charge based on percent of total construction. I know this project allows for re-use, but that is your call, typically according to copyright these drawings are only to be used specific to the site, thus you devalue your drawings by selling them cheaper the second or third time around. Fix a competitive price and don't waver, ultimately you hold all the cards (permits, etc)

VOD

 

[Slugger926]

Who is paying you? The archetect or the customer? If the archetect is paying you, he will most likely charge the customer the same amount for each set of drawings and therefore making extra profit off of your work.

I wouldn't go too low on the discount.

 

[PEinc]

It is very possible that the three condominiumns will not be built concurrently or even by the same contractor or subcontractors. Therefore, you could be doing triple the amount of site visits, phone calls, job meetings, submission reviews, pre-bid meetings. You could have triple the number of job problems with triple the number of companies involved. If the three constructions are spread out over a few years, you may have to keep refreshing your memory for each successive project.

I might look at the fee for designing 3 ea. $5 million buildings as one $15 million project and then triple the price for shop drawing reviews, meetings, etc. You have not control or guarantee on when the three buildings will be built or by whom. Also, what happens if any of the buildings gets built later after a building code changes? You would have a hard time getting someone to pay you for revising the design.

Professional liability insurance companies also don't like condo projects or cookie-cutter designs for mass production projects.

How badly do you need the triple project? Price it accordingly.