I have searched state licensing requirements and cannot find an ansewer for this question. I have been asked to perform structural engineering for someone in my state (PA) who is constructing a house in another state. I suggested they hire an engineer in that state, but they want to work with someone local. They indicated to me that the area where the home will be constructed in rural and does not have a building code or require stamped drawings. My question is whether it is legal for me to perform these engineering services and perhaps just stamp my calculations and possibly some detail drawings if the structure will be built in another state. This question assumes that that state does not require a P.E. Seal.
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Design work for use in another state 1
- Thread starter mjr6550
- Start date
"They indicated to me that the area where the home will be constructed in rural and does not have a building code or require stamped drawings"
You have to make sure that a PE stamp is not a requirement if you are interested in the project. Call the City Hall in the city where the house will be built and talk to the building department and make sure. Make sure you hear that from them and not from a person who may have a personal interest in the project.
In almost everywhere I know there will be an Occupancy Certificate that has to be signed at the end of the project. The OC need to carry the Structural PE Stamp and other stamps to make the house ready for occupancy. Nowadays, the structural PE not only has to Stamp the Drawings and the OC, he also has to sign the OC attesting to the fact that the project was properly built.
"My question is whether it is legal for me to perform these engineering services and perhaps just stamp my calculations and possibly some detail drawings if the structure will be built in another state"
Yes it is legal as long as you can find somebody in the other state who is willing to stamp the project for you. and take final responsibilty for Occupancy Certificate. They will have to review your work and take full responsibility and you would have to pay them from your fee. In this case, you will end up like the middle man.
You have to make sure that a PE stamp is not a requirement if you are interested in the project. Call the City Hall in the city where the house will be built and talk to the building department and make sure. Make sure you hear that from them and not from a person who may have a personal interest in the project.
In almost everywhere I know there will be an Occupancy Certificate that has to be signed at the end of the project. The OC need to carry the Structural PE Stamp and other stamps to make the house ready for occupancy. Nowadays, the structural PE not only has to Stamp the Drawings and the OC, he also has to sign the OC attesting to the fact that the project was properly built.
"My question is whether it is legal for me to perform these engineering services and perhaps just stamp my calculations and possibly some detail drawings if the structure will be built in another state"
Yes it is legal as long as you can find somebody in the other state who is willing to stamp the project for you. and take final responsibilty for Occupancy Certificate. They will have to review your work and take full responsibility and you would have to pay them from your fee. In this case, you will end up like the middle man.
DaveAtkins
Structural
My guess is that in many States single family residential plans and specs do not need to be prepared by a licensed professional.
DaveAtkins
DaveAtkins
It is not always legal in a given State to "find somebody in the other state who is willing to stamp the project for you and take final responsibilty for Occupancy Certificate". Some States specifically frown upon this as plan stamping. I don't know about PA.
In some states performing engineering work without a license is not legal - regardless of whether or not the project needs sealed drawings. I don't know how or why this would be enforced but I'll bet the laws are on the books.
In some states performing engineering work without a license is not legal - regardless of whether or not the project needs sealed drawings. I don't know how or why this would be enforced but I'll bet the laws are on the books.
JNJ,
It up to the PE in the state that will review and stamp the project, I am sure he will have to do a thorough review of the drawings and calculations before stamping anything. In this case the Liability is fully burdened on the PE of the said state and the project will become his full responsibilty and his responsibility alone and not the person who prepared the original documents.
It up to the PE in the state that will review and stamp the project, I am sure he will have to do a thorough review of the drawings and calculations before stamping anything. In this case the Liability is fully burdened on the PE of the said state and the project will become his full responsibilty and his responsibility alone and not the person who prepared the original documents.
JNJ,
I don't know the details of this case; however, I will sight a real example on what I mean:
An Owner for a project hired an Architect, the Architect went and hired a Structural Engineer from Canada. When it came to build the project. The owner asked the Architect to fire the Structural Engineer from Canada and hire a Local Engineer. So the Architect hired a local Engineer, the new structural engineer rechecked the whole project and revised it as needed and then he stamped the project.
There was nothing wrong with what was done as far as I know.
I posted my earlier post based on this example, and I do not see anything wrong with that, nor any court should see anything wrong with that.
I don't know the details of this case; however, I will sight a real example on what I mean:
An Owner for a project hired an Architect, the Architect went and hired a Structural Engineer from Canada. When it came to build the project. The owner asked the Architect to fire the Structural Engineer from Canada and hire a Local Engineer. So the Architect hired a local Engineer, the new structural engineer rechecked the whole project and revised it as needed and then he stamped the project.
There was nothing wrong with what was done as far as I know.
I posted my earlier post based on this example, and I do not see anything wrong with that, nor any court should see anything wrong with that.
AHaddad1,
JLNJ is correct in that the situation varies with locality. You cannot make a blanket statement about these matters. Saying that "nor any court should see anything wrong with that" is poor advice. The mere act of trying to circumvent licensing requirements is wrong, in my opinion.
JLNJ is correct in that the situation varies with locality. You cannot make a blanket statement about these matters. Saying that "nor any court should see anything wrong with that" is poor advice. The mere act of trying to circumvent licensing requirements is wrong, in my opinion.
"Saying that "nor any court should see anything wrong with that" is poor advice"
I agree, eventhough the statement was not intended as advice.
"The mere act of trying to circumvent licensing requirements is wrong, in my opinion."
I am not trying to change what the pre-existing licensing rules are, nor do I dare to change them.
The key issue as Structural Engineers is protecting the public from nature. If all of us just worry about that part alone, then all other issues become secondary.
I agree, eventhough the statement was not intended as advice.
"The mere act of trying to circumvent licensing requirements is wrong, in my opinion."
I am not trying to change what the pre-existing licensing rules are, nor do I dare to change them.
The key issue as Structural Engineers is protecting the public from nature. If all of us just worry about that part alone, then all other issues become secondary.
TXStructural
Structural
Texas does not require a PE for private dwellings, farms or ranches. There are certain parts of residential projects for which municipalities may or may not require a Texas PE seal, including: retaining walls over a certain height, unusual building methods, prefabricated components.
Non-residential buildings over 5,000 square feet, more than one story, or apartments or condos over a certain size require a PE. Non-dwelling buildings with structural components spanning longer than 24 feet require a structural PE for the entire structure.
Non-residential buildings over 5,000 square feet, more than one story, or apartments or condos over a certain size require a PE. Non-dwelling buildings with structural components spanning longer than 24 feet require a structural PE for the entire structure.
In many (most?) states, as DaveAtkins stated above, PE participation in moderately sized residential houses is NOT a requirement.
What you should do, mjr6550, is contact the state board of engineering in the state where the home is located, and ask them if the proposed house falls under engineering regulations.
Or better, get on the website of that board as they all post the engineering laws that apply in that state.
If it is not a requirement that a house be designed by a licensed engineer, then you can design it yourself and since no seal is required for a building permit, simply give the design to your client to use in construction.
What you should do, mjr6550, is contact the state board of engineering in the state where the home is located, and ask them if the proposed house falls under engineering regulations.
Or better, get on the website of that board as they all post the engineering laws that apply in that state.
If it is not a requirement that a house be designed by a licensed engineer, then you can design it yourself and since no seal is required for a building permit, simply give the design to your client to use in construction.
- Thread starter
- #15
Thanks for the replies. Just to keep things on track, here are a couple more details. I did review the regulations for the state where the house will be built. It seems clear to me from their regulations that if a P.E. stamp is required the P.E. must be registered in that state. Due to the size of the house it does not fall under the IRC and therefore engineering design is required. I will try to check with the local authorities, but my question hinges on the point of if a stamp is not required by local authorities then is it legal to perform the engineering. The more I think about it the more I feel that this is a problem. Even if locally they do not require a P.E. stamp I still need to stamp my calcs. If they somehow are seen by someone in that state that could be viewed as practicing in that state without a license. Also. if they need to get a P.E. in that state to review my work I will not take the job. I don't want to waste their money.
Yes...repeating - call the state board about it.
Also, your statement that the house "does not fall under the IRC therefore engineering design is required" doesn't make sense to me.
How does a single family house not fall under the IRC? The IRC is written specifically for single and double family housing.
What does the IRC have to do with this thread? The IRC doesn't dictate when a PE stamp is required. It doesn't define what the practice of engineering is.
Also, your statement that the house "does not fall under the IRC therefore engineering design is required" doesn't make sense to me.
How does a single family house not fall under the IRC? The IRC is written specifically for single and double family housing.
What does the IRC have to do with this thread? The IRC doesn't dictate when a PE stamp is required. It doesn't define what the practice of engineering is.
Here is a good thread that deals with the same topic from the other side, the side of the stamping PE in the state the project will be built.
State of Washington insight on Stamping/Signing Rules & Regulations :
"It is essential that design professionals learn to identify stamping dilemmas before the document is stamped and released"
A common theme, like they say live and learn...
"It is essential that design professionals learn to identify stamping dilemmas before the document is stamped and released"
A common theme, like they say live and learn...
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