Designing in 3d

[chancey]

Lil’ history; I am a Tool Designer and have been using SW for about 6 months. The product designers have been running SW exclusively for a little over a year. Those that make the decisions decided that the Tool Designers should run the same software because of the ability to be associative and the ability to use models without being translated to some other cad. Previously myself and the other Tool Designers used ACAD and we would have to have a designer create a .dxf file of the part for us.

I embraced this change with open arms. Having previously used MDT I was curious to see what the buzz was all about. I believe that I now can make a fixture or gage in close to the amount of time it took in ACAD and I feel more confident actually seeing the model. Not everyone in my group has embraced this change. One coworker actually lays out his design in ACAD before making his models because he has always been used to designing in 2D. His ACAD drawings are just short of having a title block around them. It is taking almost twice as long for work to get done. So my question is “Is there any users that have been in or are in a similar situation and do you have any advice on designing in 3D?” or is “SW really a product design tool and a waste of time to build fixtures or will there be light at the end of the tunnel?”. I hope so.

 

[MadMango]

I think many people that visit this site have been in your exact situation. Many probably started out in the 2D world (drafting board for me) and moved into the 3D realm.

The light at the end of the tunnel takes longer to reach the optic nerves of some users, but they do get there.

Are you looking for advice in how to design in 3D with SW, or are you looking for ways to help your friend make the transition faster?

Wanna Tip? faq731-376
"Probable impossibilities are to be preferred to improbable possibilities."

 

[JNR]

I agree with MadMango. I don't think this is a SW-v-ACAD issue. It's a 2D drafting (whether drawing-board or key- board) -v- 3D design. I have been doing 3D CAD since I started in CAD in 1979. I immediately saw the advantages. Flat projection is a poor simulation of the real 3D world. Some people have a very hard time letting go of their flat projected views of the world. I have also done a lot of CAD training and I think the problem mostly stems for insecurity, intimidation (by a new digital tool) or fear of change. It is difficult to deal with, that's for sure. I developed a training class for exactly this situation on our previous (3D) system for which I was a VAR at one time. It took a simple block with cut off corner and some holes and was designed to start people off in a 3D thought pattern which gave them no alternative, then built their confidence and showed them the advantages over flat views. One thing that I have found to be BAD BAD BAD is to try to get them into the 3D world by simulating their multi view methods. They just cling to the crutch and don't make a clean jump. SW should never have provided the ACAD simulation stuff - I have never looked at it and it is not allowed on our systems. I guess really it is similar to moving from one (3D) CAD system to another. You have to forget what the old system did and learn the new methods and concepts - never try to "translate".

Have you sent this person to SW training? I do mean SW - ie. at least a SW certified VAR trainer with the SW offical class? Sorry, but not a community college or the like - not in this situation. They need the concentrated 3 or 4 day days not somthing spread over weeks and the access to dedicated experts. In the end is sometimes boils down to an ultimatum. You will need to involve your HR department in the process. Here are the company standards for CAD design procedures. We canot afford to support one person being slow - it is not cost effective for our business. Nor can we have CAD modelling done by non standard methods which others may have to sustain later. You must learn to sink or swim. We will jointly develope a corrective action plan and provide reasonable additional training. If you can't progress to meet company standards during this period we will have to fire you. Unfortunately this may be your only hope. It is difficult and sad to do, but we have had to do it several times and not just with SW (in fact less times with SW). Success was varied. Sometimes the jolt with make them pay attention and cast off the crutch other times they end up out the door. None of us should take this lightly, but it is a reality of running a business.

3/4 of all the Spam produced goes to Hawaii - shame that's not true of SPAM also.......

 

[EdDanzer]

We use both SolidWorks 3D models and 2D drawing pages to produce products. Each method has its strong points. When making a part on a machine tool 2D drawings are unbeatable for quick reference and programming. The advantage of producing a 2D drawing from the solid model is when a modification is made to the original design the drawing page will update automatically. We use this frequently for product families. Once a good design has been built, most of the work will automatically update, then the details can be added.
It might be well to have some training on drafting with SolidWorks to help the 2D people transition to working with 3D.
It will take time to build a library of components to build your assemblies with, be sure the part families will interchange if you want to interchange these library components within assemblies.

 

[TheTick]

I design automotive hinges and stampings in SW. Some of our tooling suppliers are using SW, and are doing quite well using it to design prog dies.

One of the advantages is the ability to make a virtual model of the feed strip as it goes through stations, and then design the tool around that.

I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.

 

[cnkk]

the real advantage of solidworks(or any 3d cad s/w) will be appreciated only when people start complex models

if ur working in the field of tool design u will know how difficult is to make changes in acad even if one of the dimension has changed. in some cases u may have to redo the entire drawing itself. using solidworks can really help to solve this problem of reworking.

if u are doing similar parts the option of configurations will help u to complete ur work quickly

people will realize this but it will take some time



CNKK
"HOPE SEES THE INVISIBLE, FEELS THE INTANGIBLE AND ACHIEVES THE IMPOSSIBLE "

 

[MechEng13]

Chancey,

I was exactly in your situation, first designing Extrusion dies and guiders for the wire and cable industry in ACrap R14...then switched companies and started working with CADKey 97...big up from ACrap in my opinion...But my company had solidworks and I started doing my work in it. I haven't looked back since. I design gages, fixtures and screw machine style cutting tools in it and it does great. There were even a couple fixtures that I don't believe I would have been able to do with out the 3d of SolidWorks.

Solidworks is not just a product design software.



Alan M. Etzkorn
Manufacturing Engineer
Hoffco/Comet Industries Inc.

http://www.hoffcocomet.com

 

[TheTick]

If you are using SW for sheet metal tooling, you may want to check out this thread:

thread559-61213

I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.

 

[testy]

I also do fixture and special machine design in solidworks. The sooner you can forget everything you know about autocad the better off you will be. You will soon be able to design much faster than before.
You may want to point out to your coworker the difference between a drawing automatically updating and manually going back to a drawing and making sure you didn't miss anything when changes are made. This alone is worth the change but there are many other advantages to numerous to be covered here.
However, there are many things to learn about proper modeling, such as revolving instead of pancaking or stacking round parts. Become a leader, learn all you can about solidworks and share your knowledge. This forum is a great place to learn with many knowledgable and helpful professionals.

HTH,

Ray Havermahl
Engineering/Design
Independent Engineering Laboratories, inc.

http://www.ielinc.com

 

[Binary]

To me, a parametric modeler is valuable even if you want to stay 2-D (though I don't know why you would).

The improved efficiency conferred by: [ul][li]driving dimensions[/li] [li]geometry constraints[/li][li]mixed units[/li][li]typing equations instead of numbers for dimensions[/li][/ul] all make SW, SE, etc worth using, if you're fortunate enough to have access.

This is without even looking at the real power, assembly modeling and assembly-context design.

 

[josephv]

"One coworker actually lays out his design in ACAD before making his models because he has always been used to designing in 2D. His ACAD drawings are just short of having a title block around them."

Fact truely is stranger than fiction!

This person must take SolidWorks training. He is not using the software properly.

If he has taken training, he must take it again.

As JNR pointed out the training must be from a "SW certified VAR trainer"

 

[chancey]

Thanks everyone for your input. We are currently getting everyone signed up for level II training. I clearly see the advantages of 3D vs 2D. I am sure there will come a day when we say, “can you imagine that, we used to design in 2D”.

Once again, thanks, I visit this forum quite regularly and look forward to reading the threads. There is no shortage of very knowledgeable SW users here…I think most of you replied to my question!