Do Change Order Drawings Need to be PE Signed and Sealed? 6

[hondashadow1100vt]

I am writing to ask for feedback from others in regards to what they have experienced in regards to requirements for signing and sealing change order drawings.

I am a PE working on a construction project. The construction bid documents were signed and sealed. The Conformed documents (i.e., incorporating bid addenda revisions) were not signed and sealed (not required by the client). Up to this point (i.e., years into the project and 40 change orders later), no change order revision drawing prepared on this project has been signed and sealed. I am now being asked to sign and seal a relatively minor change order revision drawing. This is the first time in approximately 20 years of practice that I can recall ever having been asked to sign and seal a change order drawing.

Based on a relatively expedient internet search, surprisingly it appears as though some states do appear to call for change orders to be signed and sealed. I suppose this leaves me a little confused.

I suppose my fundamental questions are:
- What is legally required in regards to signing and sealing change order drawings?
- Why is it required (or not required) to sign and seal a change order?
- Has anyone else experienced this?

Thank you in advance for any feedback that you may be able to offer!

 

[IRstuff]

In aerospace, we make a distinction between Class 1 and Class 2 changes to a production item. Class 1 changes affect the performance of the product, while Class 2 changes do not. I'll ignore the issue of who decides; Class 1 changes require approval by the customer, while Class 2 do not.

I would imagine that construction would be similar. If you have Class 1 change orders, then it should be reviewed and signed off by the EOR, while Class 2 changes like cosmetics, could possibly get by without those. Seems to me that you need to determine what type of change it is, and ask your state board what's required, regardless of what the customer wants. When it comes to public safety, the customer is not the final authority, the PE is, and the PE must do what's required per their license requirements and the law.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[jayrod12]

I agree with IRstuff.

If it is essentially changing the design, then yes a seal would be required. If it is more a clarification but doesn't affect the overall design, then no seal should be required.

 

[jgailla]

Change order drawings have been signed and sealed on all the construction projects I've worked on.
Anything requiring a contract adjustment should be sealed. Some minor things like moving a water line a few feet can be done without a change order and reflected on the as-builts.

 

[JAE]

- What is legally required in regards to signing and sealing change order drawings?
[blue]Depends on the location/state/jurisdiction. Check your local engineering laws or call your local engineering board for their take on it. It does vary from location to location.[/blue]

- Why is it required (or not required) to sign and seal a change order?
[blue] Most state engineering laws in the US define the practice of engineering and then usually state something like,"any plan, document, report, drawing, or calculation shall be signed and sealed by a PE"[/blue]

- Has anyone else experienced this?
[blue] Most probably. [/blue]

What we have done is usually see what the local inspector demands and respond accordingly.

One perspective is that you have signed and sealed the plans identifying yourself as the engineer of record. So on record, for that on-going construction of that design, there really is no uncertainty as to who the EOR is. Subsequent change orders, supplemental drawings, responses to requests for information, all are coming from you and everyone (including the authority having jurisdiction) knows who the EOR is.

The concern would be that if you don't sign/seal these supplemental drawings then someone else could submit a drawing without your knowledge and incorporate that into the work, possibly compromising your design and affecting your liability/risk.


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[SLTA]

I always stamp changes. I've seen too many folks get in legal trouble for not properly sealing structural docs. JAE is right - check with your jurisdiction.

Please remember: we're not all guys!

 

[PEDARRIN2]

I have also seen change order documents be required to be stamped and signed.

From my experience it is the AHJ who comes out to the field and sees something going on that is different from what the permit drawings (the last drawings he has on record). He sees the unstamped drawings (half size, 8.5x11, etc.) the contractor is using and asks, "Did the engineer who signed/sealed the original design make this change? The contractor, after a few moments, nods his head. The only way the AHJ knows this to be true is if the documents bear the engineer's stamp/signature.

It can be tedious but it protects the engineer/owner from contractor field changes.

 

[cvg]

...were not signed and sealed (not required by the client).

since when does the client dictate to the professional what needs to be stamped? The professional needs to follow state law and should be aware that if there is a complaint made to the state licensing board, licenses can be revoked.

Example, from California State Law
"6735. Preparation, signing, and sealing of civil engineering documents
(a) All civil (including structural and geotechnical) engineering plans, calculations,
specifications, and reports (hereinafter referred to as "documents") shall be prepared by, or under the responsible charge of, a licensed civil engineer and shall include his or her name and license number. Interim documents shall include a notation as to the intended purpose of the document,such as "preliminary," "not for construction," "for plan check only," or "for review only." All civil engineering plans and specifications that are permitted or that are to be released for construction shall bear the signature and seal or stamp of the licensee and the date of signing and sealing or stamping. All final civil engineering calculations and reports shall bear the signature and seal or stamp of the licensee, and the date of signing and sealing or stamping. If civil engineering plans are required to be signed and sealed or stamped and have multiple sheets, the signature, seal or stamp, and date of signing and sealing or stamping, shall appear on each sheet of the plans. If civil engineering specifications, calculations, and reports are required to be signed and sealed or stamped and have multiple pages, the signature, seal or stamp, and date of signing and sealing or stamping shall appear at a minimum on the title sheet, cover sheet, or signature sheet."

 

[stevenal]

Remember the Hyatt walkway collapse that was caused by a small change informally approved over the phone? Seems like allowing changes without signing and sealing them invites this kind of occurrence.Link

 

[hondashadow1100vt]

Very informative feedback from all. I thank you for taking the time to respond. It seems like the general consensus is that there is a case for signing and sealing change orders to make sure that source of the change comes from the licensed responsible engineer.

I am going to have to buy some more ink pads to keep up with the demand!

 

[cvg]

the reason to do it is so you don't have to pay the $5,000 fine and lose your engineering license. Unless you really like to live dangerously

 

[Ron]

Agree with others...check your jurisdiction. The general test is whether it is an "engineering work". If so, must be signed and sealed under most jurisdictions. If not, perhaps optional. Best to use SLTA's approach...sign and seal it.

 

[PEDARRIN2]

In my experience, conformance documents do not have to be sealed. Typically, they are a reprint of all the various changes which were issued previously (usually addendums and early bulletins which should be sealed and signed). It gives the contractor one set of documents to use in the field which has all the previous changes.

 

[TLHS]

In my local jurisdiction, you definitely do need to. My question is, though, why wouldn't you? It's not like putting your stamp on things will increase your liability. It gives clear documentation regarding what you've actually approved. That way if someone does something without your agreement, it will be notable that your stamp *isn't* on the change. If you aren't authenticating the things that are under your control it isn't clear if something has proceeded without you.

 

[Terratek]

You'd need to in the states I carry a license.