Do people really get fired for looking at other job options? 11

[bradpa77]

I'm sure we've all heard the story before.

Joe Blow was reading job postings online and the boss found out. Joe was fired for being an unloyal employee.

I've heard several variations of the story, but they all have the same moral: Don't let your boss know you're looking at other career options or else you might get fired.

Does anyone have any real-world stories to validate this rule-of-thumb?

I just find it hard to believe that anyone would fire an employee just because they are interested in other career paths. We all get sick of our jobs from time to time and wonder how green the grass is on the other side. It's only human nature to check out your options in life. How can you label someone 'disloyal' in these instances? It doesn't seem right.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

It isn't the looking for another job that would bother me, it's the looking for another job while he should be working that would bother me.

 

[ctopher]

I think if someone is fired for looking, there has been other problems brewing already ... unless the boss is just truly an @#&%$.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[JAE]

I'm a department manager and I tell my guys to occasionally (every 5 or 8 years) to actually go out and calibrate what we pay them. If I'm not confident that they like working for me then I've got problems as a manager. I ask them to simply stay honest with me and allow me to compete for their loyalty and services. Perhaps I'm being stupid doing this but it makes for trust and allows me to be aware of their understanding of their market worth.

 

[Ashereng]

JAE,

No, not stupid. I would say realistic.

My bosses have two ways to find out if I want more money - by asking me, or by seeing me leave.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Heckler]

bradpa77 - I wouldn't look for job opportunities on the clock especially if your IT guy tracks internet sites visited by employees.

JAE - I wish I worked for you I've always wanted to work for someone that actually cared about employee compensation. All the managers/owners I've worked for get hostle or take it way to personal when it comes to salary adjustments. calibration is always healthy for both parties.

Ashereng - That's a snappy but true statement

A

for both of you

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

 

[JAE]

Well...I'm not totally a saint in that I also have an obligation to my employer to keep salary costs down as much as possible. It is a very tough balancing act as I want to pay my staff what the market appears to say their talents are worth, but I don't want to over pay the staff and short change the owners and shareholders who risk their assets to keep the firm going.

The ultimate goal, I think, is to find that ground where both sides can be satisfied.

 

[Ashereng]

JAE,

Dealing with market forces does not make you an ogre either.

It is my job to do what is right by me. If I don't take that responsibility, no one else will.

If is my boss' job to do what is right by him/the company. If he doesn't do that, I certainly won't.

You and I are on opposit side of the same relationship. If we each do our jobs, that is the best we can hope for. N'est pas?


Heckler,

I am not sure if "snappy" is good or bad. B

ut what I said is the truth. I was at a position where my boss, after not performing a salary review, or even talking about salary, for over a year, was surprised that I and others, tendered resignations. I suppose I could have gone in and talked to him about it, but I figured if he wanted to deal with salary, he would have. I wanted to up my salary, so I dealt with it by finding a better paying position elsewhere.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Ashereng]

bradpa77,

It's not so much a rule of thumb, but a recounting of events that unfortunately, does happen. Right, wrong or otherwise.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ktlasers]

In Arizona, the boss doesn't need a good reason to fire you, although s/he probably should have one. I know that I've been told my loyalty is in question because I'm looking around at my options. I'm not disloyal, just keeping my best interests at heart. I got in trouble for looking into furthering my education. I've never been fired, but strongly warned. And no, I do not look while I'm working.

 

[Ashereng]

ktlasers,

It's not just Arizona, it's almost everywhere, excluding unions and collective bargain groups. It's called "at will employment" I think. (Don't quote me.)

Sounds like you work in a place that I wouldn't. They don't like the fact you want to further your training? Geez. You may want to start thinking about more than just looking.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ktlasers]

They are afraid I will quit to go to school full time, cut back to part time here, or find another job in the process.

BTW, I can't remember the term either!

 

[stanier]

Reminds me of the European swallow flying south for the winter. It hits an icy wind, wings freeze and he plummits to earth. He lands in a cow pat. The warmth thaws his wings so he begins to sing. Hearing the tuneful notes a fox pounces, pulls him out and eats him..

Three morals to the story:

1) If you land in the sh** it isnt a bad thing
2) If someone pulls you out of the sh** he isnt necessarily your friend
3) if you are in the sh** dont sing about it

DONT LET YOUR BOSS KNOW!!!

 

[Warpspeed]

I well remember one CEO I worked for that used to look through the senior appointments section of the paper EVERY DAY. He made no secret of it either.

We were glad to see him go, hehehe.

 

[ajack1]

As someone who owns a small design house I would be very miffed if I found someone was searching for a new job during time I was paying them, why would I not be?

I do not pay the best money around or own the smartest offices or latest equipment, but that is because the company could not stand the cost, not because I am some face less money grabbing ogre. I often take less money than I pay people I employ despite working longer hours than any of them and pay them bonuses when ever possible, not because I can fudge bonuses over pay but because that gives me more control over out goings rather than hiring and firing all the time. It is a tough market place at the minute.

I would not fire someone because another person walked in and offered to work for less. If someone wants to leave that is their choice, but it is hard (if unreasonable) not to take it personally when they do and to be paying them to do so would make it even more so.

Trust and loyalty is a two way street.

 

[TurbulentFluid]

In essence, I do agree with ajack.

However, if I was offered a better salary combined with better working conditions and more prospects for personal and career advancement, I'd not wait around the old job much longer, even though I am a loyal employee.

There's a point where personal priorities outweight the loyalty to the employer. I don't think employers should take it badly.

 

[SomptingGuy]

I recall the following phrase (or something very close to it) from my old employment contract when I worked in America:

"Management has the right to terminate your employment at a moment's notice for any reason or no reason at all."

Scary stuff! It wouldn't wash in Europe. Neither would being fired for reading job ads.

 

[bradpa77]

Reminds me of the European swallow flying south for the winter.

Great story. That was really funny! I gave you a star for it. I'll have to keep that little piece of wisdom tucked away in my brain. Thanks.

I would not fire someone because another person walked in and offered to work for less.

Good point. I never thought of it that way. I gave you a star for that. Thanks.

 

[prost]

The only people you have to be loyal to is your family and friends (your community, so to speak). Loyalty may be a two-way street in your company; I am glad for you, but this is the exception. Looking for work during work hours obviously is unethical and it would be hard to be sympathetic with you if you got fired for doing it. Looking for a different job outside of work hours is none of your boss's business, and is almost always in your best interest to continue to do so your entire career. You owe your boss your loyalty no more than toaster maker owes the appliance store his loyalty--you are trading a commodity, your services, to your boss for money. Loyalty doesn't even enter into the equation, and hasn't for more than 30 years. Think I am too cynical? Try reading some of these posts again after you've been laid off the first time.

 

[xgrigorix]

Certainly looking for a new job while at your current job is wrong. Do not do it unless you are willing to face the consequences. It seems most of us are employed at will (that is the correct term). Yes, that means your employer can terminate you w/ or w/o cause. If you were looking at job postings while on the company dime, your employer would have cause to terminate your employment.

That said, I would just like to point out, that it never hurts to ASK for a raise. Just have a clear list of what you are doing / have done that warrants money. I doubt any employer would fire you just for asking. So, that means that the worst that will happen is that the boss will say no. Unless, of course, your boss happens to be a miserble pr!ck. I guess the moral is pick your battles wisely.