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Do you think gasoline engine will be Disappear 2
- Thread starter Busa20
- Start date
SomptingGuy
Automotive
I assume you mean the "Internal Combustion Engine" (not just the spark-ignited sub-set that use gasoline as a fuel).
One day, yes. When it's no longer economically viable compared with the alternatives. Then there'll be old men with ear coming out of their ears & nose, waxing lyrical about "proper" engines. Like the steam buffs do these days.
- Steve
One day, yes. When it's no longer economically viable compared with the alternatives. Then there'll be old men with ear coming out of their ears & nose, waxing lyrical about "proper" engines. Like the steam buffs do these days.
- Steve
GregLocock
Automotive
Hydrocarbon/alcohol fuelled piston-expander engines will be around for a long time for haulage and agriculture.
Aircraft will use liquid fuelled gas turbines (which are actually internal combustion engines) or piston-expanders for the forseeable future.
Gasoline vs diesel is a bit of a toss-up. I guess it depends how much energy you can deliver to the bowser for a given set of raw material. How much LPG is available? why aren't we using that for cars, in in most countries? Emissions is no drama, and there is lots of it about.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
Aircraft will use liquid fuelled gas turbines (which are actually internal combustion engines) or piston-expanders for the forseeable future.
Gasoline vs diesel is a bit of a toss-up. I guess it depends how much energy you can deliver to the bowser for a given set of raw material. How much LPG is available? why aren't we using that for cars, in in most countries? Emissions is no drama, and there is lots of it about.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
EngJW
Mechanical
- Feb 25, 2003
- 682
About 38 years ago I worked for an oil company and they put on a seminar about alternative engines and fuels. The basic conclusion seemed to be that the traditional automotive engine was not likely to die out anytime soon (electronic efi was not even around yet).
I expect to be long gone and the internal combustion engine will still be here!
I expect to be long gone and the internal combustion engine will still be here!
patprimmer
New member
LPG has lower power density and is also a VERY good feedstock for some very popular chemicals, like the most popular plastics and detergents.
The fuel must be stored at quite high pressure which creates a safety issue over and bove petrol or diesel.
Having said all that, I would option it or retrofit it to my next car if practical. In a Honda Integra it s not really practical due to room and potential return on investment time, however if I buy a tow car that might be an out of OEM warranty Japanese V6 utility dual cab or SUV, LPG will be part of the deal.
Regards
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
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The fuel must be stored at quite high pressure which creates a safety issue over and bove petrol or diesel.
Having said all that, I would option it or retrofit it to my next car if practical. In a Honda Integra it s not really practical due to room and potential return on investment time, however if I buy a tow car that might be an out of OEM warranty Japanese V6 utility dual cab or SUV, LPG will be part of the deal.
Regards
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
I took the original question to be the gasoline fueled version of the IC engine. Diesels have made serious inroads in Europe and some countries have abundant feed-stocks of materials like coal from which to make distillates that can be burned in compression ignition engines. Considering other things like cycle efficiency, etc, I think gasoline as a fuel is on the decline.
rmw
rmw
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- #8
Gasoline became the fuel of choice 100 years ago because it worked well in the automotive recip. piston engine and was virtually free, since it was an unwanted by-product of kerosene refining with no practical use at the time. The oil refiners use to dump it in the nearest river.
Free market economics will ensure that we never will run completely out of gasoline (or any fungible commodity for that matter). Because when the demand becomes greater than the supply the price will increase. Eventually, the price for the remaining supply becomes too great and consumers will stop buying it, and switch to some other fuel or mode of transportation.
Finally, contrary to what agenda-driven alarmists like Al Gore would have you believe, the world has well over 100 years' worth of economically recoverable feedstocks that can be made into gasoline (or some similar hydrocarbon fuel). And at the same time, the Otto cycle internal combustion engine continues, year after year, to become more efficient, more durable and reliable, more economical, and cleaner burning than any other mass-market-ready automotive propulsion system. The yearly improvements in the humble, gasoline-fueled, spark-ignited IC engine still continue to outpace the improvements in the fuel cell or electric drivetrains. And that's why it's currently the automotive powerplant of choice, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
Free market economics will ensure that we never will run completely out of gasoline (or any fungible commodity for that matter). Because when the demand becomes greater than the supply the price will increase. Eventually, the price for the remaining supply becomes too great and consumers will stop buying it, and switch to some other fuel or mode of transportation.
Finally, contrary to what agenda-driven alarmists like Al Gore would have you believe, the world has well over 100 years' worth of economically recoverable feedstocks that can be made into gasoline (or some similar hydrocarbon fuel). And at the same time, the Otto cycle internal combustion engine continues, year after year, to become more efficient, more durable and reliable, more economical, and cleaner burning than any other mass-market-ready automotive propulsion system. The yearly improvements in the humble, gasoline-fueled, spark-ignited IC engine still continue to outpace the improvements in the fuel cell or electric drivetrains. And that's why it's currently the automotive powerplant of choice, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.
Yes, I think gasoline engines will become inviable long before diesel engines will, if ever. Diesels will likely run for quite a while on fuel derived from coal.
I think it's morally indefensible to devote croplands to culturing fuel for inferior, less efficient technology.
I think it's morally indefensible to devote croplands to culturing fuel for inferior, less efficient technology.
patprimmer
New member
Back to the OP
Obviously yes eventually. Definitely if the sun goes super nova.
Regards
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
Obviously yes eventually. Definitely if the sun goes super nova.
Regards
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
"I think it's morally indefensible to devote croplands to culturing fuel for inferior, less efficient technology."
It could be worse. We could be taking croplands, plowing them over, and building expensive housing on them, so people can drive 15mpg trucks on 60 mile commutes while complaining (backhanded bragging) about how much money they are spending on fuel.
It's a lot easier to redirect crop use than it is to tear down scores of houses and convert back to agriculture.
It could be worse. We could be taking croplands, plowing them over, and building expensive housing on them, so people can drive 15mpg trucks on 60 mile commutes while complaining (backhanded bragging) about how much money they are spending on fuel.
It's a lot easier to redirect crop use than it is to tear down scores of houses and convert back to agriculture.
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- #12
TDIMeister
Automotive
I believe the ICE will hold a large percentage of market share for transport vehicles for at least the next 2 decades. Gasoline (spark-ignition) in general will remain common, but petroleum gasoline will be blended in increasing proportion with bio-gasoline and alcohols according to economics and regulation, and will probably change slightly in their properties from the pump gasoline of today.
The line distinguishing SI and CI engines are ever blurring, and in the near future, we will have engines that run partially in HCCI mode, but come from different design paradigms. One side will be HCCI engines based on today's SI engines (e.g. GM, Honda, VW's CGI, etc.), and the other side will be based on today's CI engines (e.g. VW's CCS, etc.). Unfortunately, there is still no agreement nor convergence of an alternative fuel standard that will run optimally on all OEMs' HCCI engines. GM is pushing E85, while VW promotes a second-gen biofuel similar to naphtha.
But emphatically, gasoline and "oil" as we know it will NOT disappear completely, only because we are now maturing the technology to make them from coal, natural gas and biomass as to be nearly indistinguishable the petroleum counterpart.
The line distinguishing SI and CI engines are ever blurring, and in the near future, we will have engines that run partially in HCCI mode, but come from different design paradigms. One side will be HCCI engines based on today's SI engines (e.g. GM, Honda, VW's CGI, etc.), and the other side will be based on today's CI engines (e.g. VW's CCS, etc.). Unfortunately, there is still no agreement nor convergence of an alternative fuel standard that will run optimally on all OEMs' HCCI engines. GM is pushing E85, while VW promotes a second-gen biofuel similar to naphtha.
But emphatically, gasoline and "oil" as we know it will NOT disappear completely, only because we are now maturing the technology to make them from coal, natural gas and biomass as to be nearly indistinguishable the petroleum counterpart.
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