Does ASME Require That All Vessels Be NB Registered? 3

[JoeTank]

While employed previously by an ASME Code shop I came to understand that all ASME Code stamped vessels had a NB number and a copy of the U-1 data report was posted to the NB HQ (along with a registration fee). As a consultant I have encountered on a number of occasions vessels that were Code stamped, but not registered at the NB. Further, I was advised by an experienced and knowledgeable fabricator that the the NB registration is a jurisdictional requirement, not an ASME requirement. I never took the opportunity to verify the correctness of his statement. Considering the number of Code stamped vessels that are not registered with the NB, his statement seems plausible. Was he correct about this? Thanks for your responses.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[GenB]

Registration is an agreement with the NB and in accordance with the shop's quality control all or some of the ASME stamped vessels can be registered with the NBd, the ones registered will have to comply with the Nt'l Bd regulations,
and specially the registered numbers have to be in ascending sequence starting with the No. 1 ,
The problems thatcan arise for not havuing a registration with the Nt'l Bd are a diferent thing and falls from shipping the vessel into the diferent jurisdictions, whether or not the jurisdiction will accept the vessel with or w/o registration. you donot have it send it back to the mfr.
hope this helps,
ER

 

[BJaffa]

We are primarily a repair shop but have contructed and registered new vessels with the Nat. Bd. The process is not that onerous. We have found the local jurisdiction is far easier to deal with if we intend to resister the vessels. On a more important note the access to Data Reports of registered Code objects is INVALUABLE to anyone who will need to repair the equipment in the future. We have found owners are terrible custodians of the original Data Report.
BJaffa

 

[Sharik]

Your fabricator is correct, the NB stamping is a requirement of the jurisdictional authority and/or the customer/user. It is not an ASME requirement.

BJaffa is also correct in that there are many benefits to having the equipment registered with the NB, especially when it comes to documentation for future repairs/alterations or when selling the equipment.

 

[bhoot9]

This is not in direct response to the question, but thought may be interesting. I work for an AEC firm. About 10 years back, we had purchased few Vessels form a Code shop for a Client. We had specified requirement of NB registration on these Vessels. After delivering the Vessels, and prior to furnishing U-1 form, Vendor had filed for Bankruptcy. We tried very hard for a few weeks, but could not get a copy of U-1 form from the Vendor, because they were in disarray. We then contacted National Board, who sent us a copy of U-1. Without NB registration, we probably would have to send the bankrupt Vendor a Legal notice.

 

[spector]

Code work.......

ASME is a code of construction(I know you know this).

NB is more or less the enforcement of same.

An ASME stamp states it was constructed to code as the code existed at the time of original construction. The NB stamp says yep, it fersure was because one of our inspectors watched it happen and our field auditors ensure they maintain the ability to do as the ASME code dictates.

So inpractice, the fabricator can claim it was built to ASME and stamp it so, but without the NB stamp, who really knows.

That's why jurisdictions who are serious about pressure vessel safety demand both stamps.

I can place a 'USDA Select' tattoo on my wife's butt, but that don't mean she really is....

 

[JoeTank]

spector,
The only stamping on a Code vessel is ASME nameplate. The NB stuff kicks in for in-service equipment.


Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[JoeTank]

Sorry, posted the last reply too quickly. Regarding ASME and NB dual stamping for a vessel, I've not worked in a Jurisdiction where that is required of new vessels. Which Jurisdictions requires such dual stamping?

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[deanc]

Steve

Try this

http://www.nationalboard.org

Then go to the Site Directory,Look for NB Synopsis of Boiler and PV Laws.

 

[JoeTank]

deanc,
I checked out the NBIC link and found no reference to NB stamping of NEW vessels. After re-reading and re-reading the earlier post about this issue, I believe that the NB reference must be in regards to in-service vessels. And, as we know, the R-stamp is applied for repairs.

spector,
While one should accept the ASME stamp as the manufacturer's comfirmation that the vessel was per Code, I also remain respectfully cautious about the accuracy of that assurance. I believe that the manufacturer really believes that the Code requirements were met. But, we all make mistakes or misinterpretations (especially about the dreaded UW-11(a)(5)(b) joint efficiency issue). The signature of the AI on the data report is also reassuring, but I never forget that the the signature only means "that to be best of my knowledge" the vessel complies with the Code. I am in no way a skeptic about the system as I find that it usually work well, especially for the basic types of vessels. It's the more complicated vessels where I find the problems from the original manufacturer.


Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[deanc]

I should have explained more.

There once was an org. by the name of the Uniform Boiler and PV Laws Society. They published a check list for what you wish. They are no more. The NB has taken this over and now has a publication NB-370 NB Synopsis of Boiler and PV Laws,Rules,and Regs. It is $100.

The other method is use the link I sent and contact each jurisdiction.

Nothing is free.

 

[qualityManager]

Steve,

National Board registration required for Pressure Vessels in all states except:
Montana
Wyoming
Arizona
New Mexico
South Dakota
Oklahoma
Texas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Alabama
Florida
Michigan
West Virginia
South Carolina
Connecticut
Massachusetts

National Board registration required for Boilers in all states except:
California
Montana
Wyoming
Arizona
Oklahoma
Mississippi
Alabama
South Carolina

source: nationaboard.org

see Synopsis of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Laws, Rules and Regulations

also always check local juristiction when doing new installations. I had several vessels in Seattle that met State requirements for stamping, but not city regulations.

 

[JoeTank]

spector,
You make reference to an NB stamp. Could you please clarify which stamp you are talking about and is it applied to a new vessel? To the best of my knowledge, an ASME vessel comes with an ASME stamp only. Yes, a NB AI signs the data report for an ASME vessel. Am I misreading your post? I apologize in advance about my confusion here. Thank you.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[qualityManager]

I think he is talking about the 'NB' stamp. This is relatively new (last year, I think) stamp that the national board has manufacturers stamp on national board registered vessels only along with the registration number. In the past, all the manufacturers had to do was apply the words "National Board", but this is no longer accepted.

Not to be confused with any of the 'R' variety stamps, as repair and registration are two different functions of the national board.

Cheers,
WRW

 

[deanc]

One more time.

http://www.nationalboard.org

Publications-Electronic Bulletins-Fall 2002,Notices and Winter 2001 First Use

 

[JoeTank]

A star to you deanc. Thanks for the NB links. Can you share anything about the reason for the establishment of the NB stamp. Was it a fund raising thing by the NB or did it change something about the existing process? I know that there were some bogus vessel stampings in the past. Was this a way to address that problem?

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com

 

[GenB]

California and Arizona are working in requiring registration. My recomendation is to register the vessels,
and away with guessing.
ER

 

[JoeTank]

As one regularly engaged in pressure vessel inspection and maintenance activities I find that often we have to chase down the data report thru the NB. For about 35 bucks, all the guess work disappears and one has real answers about the vessel. Vessel owners just don't seem to get it that sometime paperwork really is important.

Steve Braune
Tank Industry Consultants

http://www.tankindustry.com