Dry Utility Coordination

[GoldDredger]

I wanted to get some opinions on dry utility coordination for typical commercial development (gas, electric, cable and phone). I've been running into a good deal of scope creep, irregardless of my listing the dry utility design as an exclusion to our scope.

In my opinion, coordination with the dry utilities should be between the MEP (or architect) and the service provider. The MEP knows the loads the buildings will require, and typically the service provider does the design and construction of those lines onto the site.

For some reason though, I've run into MEP's who indicate this is the site civil's job (to coordinate with the dry utility providers). They insist they provide civil with the loads, and then civil has to do the coordination from there.

To me it seems the architect or MEP should deal with the dry utilities. There are payment contracts between developer and service provider, and the location of service to the building is purely an architectural or MEP item.

My intent was to show the dry utility designs for 'reference only' on the civil drawings (for sleaving). However, I have found I end up at the bottom of the dog pile, serving as go between for numerous parties.

Has anyone run into this issue before and what did you do?
(Generally our contracts are with a developer, and the architect/MEP are co-consultants not hired through us. Sometimes we are hired by the architect, with MEP being co-subconsultants with us)

 

[civilman72]

First, our contracts (with Developers) always state that Client (or Client's representatives) is to coordinate with all shallow utility companies. If Client provides us with design infomation from the utility companies, we will draft the location of proposed utilities on the plans for an additional service. We will offer to coordinate with the shallow utility companies, but most Clients do not want to pay for our services when they find out how much coordination time this really takes.

I think the most logical person to coordinate and design the utilities is the civil engineer. However, as I stated above, this does take A LOT of coordination time. Not only dealing with existing utilities, all of the proposed utilities and their unique design standards (including depth, hor. and vert. separation, pipe size/type/bedding, etc.), easement creation, and coordination with ME and Arch on loads and meter locations.

I actually encourage my Clients to let me do it. I pride myself on creating tight, buildable construction plans, but I always run into issues during construction (worst time) with utility line issues/conflicts if they are designed by individual utility companies, who NEVER cross-check their design with other util companies.

If you can convince your Client to pay you to do this coordination and design, it will save him money during construction and you lots of heartaches. Plus, I've found having a relationship with the engineers from the utility companies has gotten me recommendations for more work, and has helped me "pull-some-strings" when necessary.

 

[Hoagie]

Consider this strategy.

Speak to an outfit that does the dry utility work and get a quote from them to provide design and supply a plan. Write a Change Order (or whatever you call it) and include the fee (from above) plus 8-percent. Add in fee for coordination and handling. Also, bury any out-of-scope fees (previously) accumulated within the two proposed fees. Submit the CO to the owner and architect and wait a few minutes for the phone to ring. Listen to their language, threats, etc..

Or, you could take a little loss, provide the work, make everyone happy, and then get 'em next time.

Times are too tight to be picky. Don't you think?

 

[GoldDredger]

Hoagie is correct, times are tight to be too picky. Best just to make everyone happy for a little extra effort on my part. Seeking additional services fees sometimes generates more ill will that it is worth.

However, I mainly posted this for 'the next time'.

I wanted to get an idea of what my peers do in terms dry utility coordination. Do site civil guys usually coordinate that, or is it mostly by others.

Civilman72 up there finds benefit in making that his responsibility. Perhaps that is the better way to look at it.

 

[civilman72]

I'm with you, times are tight, and putting "a little extra effort" towards your clients' projects is a reasonable idea. However, as I said above, the design and coordination for shallow utilities is very time consuming, and if you offer these services to your client without being reimbursed for your time, you risk losing a lot.

Would you design water and sewer main/service lines without expecting to be paid? Because considering there is usually up to four separate shallow utility companies (gas, electric, phone, cable) to deal with, it can actually take more time to deal with these than the w/s design/coordination.

Just be careful what services you offer to your client (pro-bono) without being aware of the (potential large) scope.

 

[cvg]

since the utilities (dry or wet for that matter) cross the site and may affect the site plan including grading, drainage, water, sewer or other aspects - the site civil designer hardly has any choice but to at least review the locations and make comments. However the architect and utility companies also have a dog in the fight. As the project manager, the architect or engineer should do the coordination (or delegate it to the civil), but all parties should be at the table to discuss and review the design. For larger jobs, there should be a dedicated utility coordination person with a significant budget to do the work.