E-mail Discretion 11

[ArnoldMC]

I was told by a senior engineer not to report safety concerns in an e-mail. Is this standard practice? I have found that "conversations" do not seem to command the same attention as written documents.

 

[IRstuff]

This is what is called "plausible deniability." If there's no written or electronic record, then no one can be made culpable. However, if there is a "Pearl Harbor" memo or email, the fingers can be quite accurately pointed for criminal or civil liabilities. I would slowly move away from them, as they're mostly likely to point the finger at someone like you when sh*t hits the fan.

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[desertfox]

Hi ArnoldMC

While in the process of moving away from them, any safety concerns you have I would note down in writing the time, date and the person you informed as it might be useful at a later date.

 

[GregLocock]

Depends on the company. Since the OP has classified himself as automotive, no an email is not a great way of raising concerns. Your company should have a formal problem deck. However, there are certainly some second rate companies that discourage documenting concerns in writing. I worked for a subsidiary of one, a long time ago.

not entirely irrelevant -

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...l-investigation-reveals-banned-words/9204611/

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[msquared48]

Conversations are not as easily discoverable in litigation as emails and other written communication.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[ArnoldMC]

Thanks everyone

 

[zdas04]

My guess is that your boss has been sued and is trying to mitigate the worst of the experience should it happen again. I spent some time with a bunch of lawyers once and one of them said if he had his way Daytimers, e-mail, and text messages would all be against company policy. It used to be that the only written documentation of an event was formal correspondence and signed reports--call it 100,000 distinct documents in a typical trial against Big Oil. Today it is in the millions, and there is so much redundancy that it melts your mind (everyone on an e-mail chain has the whole chain, and had parts of it dozens of times). He tried really hard to turn off the "include previous message" feature in Outlook on install and disable it for all employees, he lost that fight.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[glass99]

Eliot Spitzer, ex-New York State Attorney General (and client number 9 of call girl Ashley Dupre) had the following words of wisdom on email communication:

"Never talk when you can nod and never nod when you can wink and never write an e-mail, because it's death. You're giving prosecutors all the evidence we need."

 

[ArnoldMC]

Thanks for the posts, everyone. Here is my quandary.
Increasingly, e-mail and other forms of electronic communication are how we get things done in our jobs. If there is a restriction on what can be written, or what topics can be discussed openly in our normal business correspondence; won't this lead to the kind of business culture that led to GM not fixing a low cost safety hazard? If we, as engineers, know that the most certain and effective way to communicate a design/safety issue (and get people working on it) is e-mail, don't we have an ethical responsibility to use that medium?

 

[glass99]

ArnoldMC: You are absolutely correct that email secrecy can be corrosive and inhibit progress in many ways. Lawsuits are like cancer too, and lawyers will twist your words. It is kind of the world attempting to make two wrongs equal a right. Of course don't be stupid with email. That happens a lot too. There is a difference between facts and opinion.

 

[miningman]

There's another important distinction here. Are we talking straight forward internal emails ?? If so most of the previous posts are relevant. However if we are talking about contract administration / sub contractor management ( as most of my recent experience has been), then absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, if you are aware of a possible safety issue, where it is incumbent on the contractor to rectify the deficiency, put your concerns in a formal email , cc your boss when appropriate, and continue to document any concerns if the matter is not resolved to your satisfaction within a timely period. If something ever ends up in a court of law, its not who is right or wrong, it is which lawyer has the best documentation at his disposal and of course you, as an individual, can be seen to have done your best to ensure that the safety matter was resolved before an accident / injury.

 

[ArnoldMC]

Great posts guys.

 

[SNORGY]

To me, it's a matter of escalation.
The first communication should be verbal and it should be directed at exactly those people responsible or affected, and it should be, "Guys, this ain't safe. I have some real concerns here."
The second communication should be formalizing the observation in a Near Miss or other incident report, if such an avenue exists in the company.
If no action occurs after that, and you still have a concern, email all concerned with a copy to your boss and HR; be prepared to be fired at this point.
If still no action, quit, and don't mince words during your exit interview.

People are either prepared to "live or die by the sword", or they're not. There's nothing wrong with those people who aren't willing to take things to difficult levels or ultimatums for fear of reprisal, family concerns, fear of job loss, etc., but to me, my advice would be: don't start fights that you aren't prepared to finish, even if the outcome for you, personally, sucks.

Play the scenario out:

"This situation is dangerous and it bothers me."
"If you complain about it, it will cost you your job."
Response "A":
"OK, I guess it doesn't bother me that much."
Response "B":
"I don't give a crap, it bugs me and I plan to make my concerns known."

Be the guy or gal who goes with Response "B".

 

[ArnoldMC]

I like you Snorgy.

 

[BrianPetersen]

Sounds about right to me. The only thing I can add is that when you do that initial verbal communication, don't exclude the possibility that your concern actually isn't valid, because there's more to the situation than you may be aware of. If you go straight to the official written complaint route, you could be the one who ends up looking silly.

 

[ArnoldMC]

All good points. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the complaints are valid, and the company is simply focused on a policy of no emails about issues.

 

[glass99]

ArnoldMC: another option is to go to an environment where your work does not matter and there are no implications for failure. No one will care what emails you write, though you may find the salary is not so good. There is a people reality as well as a technical reality.

 

[ArnoldMC]

I guess I asked.

 

[msquared48]

There is also the aspect that the principals see company policy through written communication, not the employees.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[MikeHalloran]

It's not uncommon for The Big Boss to have stealthy access to _everyone_'s email, perhaps even with automatic flagging of messages with selected keywords.

It's unlikely that the usual chain of cowardice would even know of the existence of such a capability.

Tread carefully.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA