ElectroFlow energy reduction 2

[WBA]

It has been suggested to our company that the quality of our power supply could be drastically improved and the energy consumption reduced significantly by installing an electroflow unit between our main transformer and distribution board.
I was wondering whether anybody had experience or knowledge of this unit and could offer advice.
From reading some of their literature it would appear "too good to be true".

 

[jraef]

WBA,
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not representing Electroflow and trying to get free press by posting a "question" here, I'll offer my opinions of what I see available on their website. Again, these are opinions.

1) I am always suspicious of the type of statement that they boldly place on the front of their page, "...with GUARANTEED electric savings of up to 34%, without any disruption to equipment or machinery." Common sense tells me that this is meant to ensnare the reader with wild claims that are difficult for the casual user to verify or even understand. A basic axiom to remember in any device of this kind is, "Only energy that is wasted can be saved" (credit to Mark Empson for that quote). If you are not already wasting MORE than 34% of your energy consumption, you cannot possibly save that much. While it is true that a few systems are so overdesigned that they have significant inherant losses, that is not automatically true for yours, and most likely it is not. Therefore, any energy savings scheme, beit a device or program, must be evaluated against the true waste that YOU have, not some other example. When someone uses a blanket statement like this, they are (to my thinking) more interested in taking your money than educating you.

2) Be wary of technology that uses other undefined or nebulous terms to describe how it works. This is a common trick of what I call snake-oil peddlers. Here is the sum total text taken from their link "How does it work?"

"ElectroFlowTM is an internationally renowned energy saving and power conditioning system, the culmination of years of technological assessment and field testing. Special computer modeling techniques were developed at the university level to support and guarantee the proper fit and function of each ElectroFlowTM. ElectroFlowTM is an integrated system consisting of multi-LRC tank circuits. When operating in Auto mode, it utilizes a space age hi-tech monitoring system to sample electrical parameters such as Voltage, Current, Power Factor, and Current Threshold/Hr at 3840 - 15360 times per second. Based on pre-adjusted parameters unique to each facility, the ElectroFlowTM Regulator then activates appropriate internal stages in Ladder Logic response until the preset values are reached. ElectroFlow™ is equipped with a unique Self Diagnostic Feature (SDF) which identifies component status/failure on both per phase and per stage bases."

Rules from Marketing of Crap 101:
a) Use words over 7 letters as much as possible.
b) If you want to dupe someone into buying something, but you don't want them to know how simple it really is for them to do it themselves, use nebulous terms like "hi-tech monitoring", "appropriate internal stages" and "Ladder Logic response". Then throw in some new undefined terms such as "multi-LRC tank circuits" and "Current Threshold/Hr" so that the reader is made to feel inadequte because they don't know exactly what those things mean.
c) To top it off, add a few "internationally renowned", "space age", "unique" and "University Level" terms as icing on the cake to help cover up the technology underneath.

All that said, it is entirely possible that this is beneficial. From the looks of it, it is a system of capacitors and variable reactors with a controller that decides the optimum way to use them. There is always a benefit to maintaining clean power in your system. The price may be objectionable to some, and the manufacturer might have become a little over zealous in their attemps to get past that by making claims of paypack that seem unrealistic, I don't know. If it were my money (and I was concerned that I was wasting a LOT of energy in my plant), I would hire a COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT consultant with a proven reputation to evaluate my plant and make simple recommendations to fix problem areas. Then I would introduce them to this device and see how they think it would benefit me.


"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"

 

[jraef]

Just for the sake of informed consent, I offer the following:

Look at the threads reagrding Siaf Electic and the posted experiances / opinions at this link.

http://www.darnell.com/forum_pqp/index.stm

Go beyond the cut-and-pasted hype on this other forum post and read the responses near the end of the thread.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=182927&messageid=1027533543&lp=1077909877

"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"

 

[jraef]

Last word: My signature line is (questionable) latin for "Snake oil peddlers cannot exist without an ignorant populace". That is because I have seen a lot of this sort of thing start happening with our flourishing internet and I want people to just think before they buy.

 

[Bung]

Again, that old problem of %ages raises its ugly head! 34% on what base? 34% of total power consumed before action is taken? Or just 34% of your current "losses" (WTMB). If you are already running an efficient system, 34% of bugger all losses is still bugger all.



Bung
Life is non-linear...

 

[ScottyUK]

'University level' - designed by an undergraduate?

'Space Age' - 1960s?

Run a mile, and run quickly!




------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!

 

[jraef]

Bung,
LOL! Can you imagine? If a device could GUARANTEE that it saved 34% of all consumed energy anywhere and everywhere it is installed we could probably end all wars over energy resources, eliminate poverty and hunger worldwide, reduce the need for manual labor and elevate the human condition to near utopian levels. What is wrong with us? Why isn't everyone doing this to save the world?

ScottyUK,
Poignant twist on those terms! I'll have to remember them.


"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"

 

[mc5w]

Since there are now solid state meters that can record harmonic KVA and the utility can charge for it, maybe that is the 34% savings. These meters can even be set up to compensate for current transformer ratio loss for frequencies over 400 Hertz.

Duquesne Light Company has a rule that commercial and industrial users cannot have total harmonic current distortion of over 3%, so you could get the $$$$ hammered out of you for poor power quality!

Mike Cole, mc5w@earthlink.net

 

[jraef]

It is doubtful that any savings would come from as-yet-to-be harmonic kVA metering. The devices involved in this post (and others like it) are creating significant harmonic distortion themselves. In fact, that is another reason NOT to use them.

"Venditori de oleum-vipera non vigere excordis populi"