Continue to Site

Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

  • Congratulations GregLocock on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

Elliot Lake Update 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

jayrod12

Structural
Mar 8, 2011
6,170
Engineer charged in Elliot Lake Mall (Algo Centre Mall) collapse found not guilty

cbc.ca
 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

Glad to hear that... he was the culmination of just so many errors... starting with the Architect that designed it.

Dik
 
Wow.
I would have expected worse in that the engineer stated the mall was "structurally sound" only two months before it collapsed.



Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here:
faq731-376
 
From the CBC, "Ontario Superior Court Justice Edward Gareau delivered his ruling in the trial of Robert Wood on Thursday in Sault Ste. Marie, saying Wood's actions were "sloppy," but not criminal."

I would have held him to a higher standard, but, so many 'good' (and, I've worked with many of them) people missed the problem in past.

Dik
 
There was a lot of negligence on that job, starting from day one of the design. I suspect the judge had sympathy for Mr Wood, and couldn't bring himself to punish the last engineer for not solving the problem created by all the other engineers, builders, and architects who preceded him. Why there was not a wider net cast I don't know.
 
Hokie:

I suspect you're correct...

Dik
 

There is a difference between being criminally negligent and being professionally negligent or liable.

My guess is that this is not the end of the issue for him. There may be a civil case. There may actions taken by the engineering board to suspend or revoke his license.



 
Josh... I seem to recall that he is no longer registered with PEO... He was just the last guy on the train...

Dik
 
Note: I don't feel like I know enough about this case to blame any one person in particular. Though these politically charged days, I find that I am frequently pointing out the different levels of "justice" in our court system.

Just because someones actions (be it an engineer, police officer, or neighborhood watch patrol) is found not guilty of a criminal offense doesn't mean that person gets to walk away scot-free(sp?). We have a more stringent criteria for determining guilt in criminal cases than we do in civil cases. And, the effects on someone's professional life can be severe even if they aren't found liable in civil court either.
 
Josh... the only engineering that went into it was the original engineer certifying the loading. I studied this in fair detail including the forensic report prepared for the Ontario Provincial Police. The structural and architectural drawings were prepared by the Architect, and it appears that the steel and hollowcore shop drawings were only reviewed by the architect. The structure as specified could not be constructed for the loading stipulated and the failure was of the building envelope. Not a word of criticism was levelled against the architect.

Dik
 
The 2014 inquiry:
The inquiry found fault in the owners.

"The evidence before this Commission is clear that the
waterproofing of the roof failed virtually from the outset.
The logical course of action would have been to undertake
early and effective remedial measures to protect a valuable
asset. Successive owners neglected to do so, and the
consequences of that neglect were tragic"...

..."The actions of the owners contributed to the collapse"...

Why charges weren't laid against Algocen Realty, or the subsequent owners, I don't know.


STF
 
or the Architect... building envelope failure... only way the specified roofing could have worked (and even then, it was inadequate) would be for the topping to be composite with the HC and the original design had a WP membrane between... The OPP report was prepared by an engineer, employed by an Architectural firm...

Dik
 
dik,

Engineering professional organizations in Ontario are being pressured to implement Continuing Professional Development. This is in response to Elliot Lake. OACETT, the Ontario Association of Certified Technicians and Technologists have drunk the Koolaide. The PEO still are arguing it. I am a CET, and I am not aware of any jobs that require that title. We could lose a lot of members on this.

The whole profession is being held accountable.

--
JHG
 
They have it totally wrong, IMHO.

Dik
 
Drawoh:

I'll be sending the Ontario Society a letter on this... thanks for the info...

Dik
 
The AG's report, summary here: from Sparweb's link makes for very depressing reading.

What's more depressing is the likelihood that even that level of damning evidence of malfeasance, collusion, greed, etc., has resulted in nothing happening.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
Drawoh said:
...Engineering professional organizations in Ontario are being pressured to implement Continuing Professional Development...The PEO still are arguing it...

Really? I didn't know that. In Alberta that was implemented about a decade ago, at both APEGA and ASET, and became mandatory about 5 years ago.
I am rather pleased to fill in my CPD form every year. List of interesting things done, accomplishments, etc. and a reminder to stay current on the things I've already learned.
I do know some curmudgeons who don't see it that way, but they're a minority, in my circle of colleagues.


STF
 
I don't think that there is any link between CPD and avoiding disasters like the one at Elliot Lake. Common sense is not often the target of CPD.
 
No, I don't see the link between CPD and the failure at Elliot Lake, either. The degradation to the beams and the persistent leaks were evident to EVERYONE in the building. Probably getting off topic, then.

STF
 
But drawoh said the CPD implementation for Certified Technicians and Technologists is in "response to Elliot Lake". Maybe if the CPD is aimed at ethical behaviour...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor