Email Signature w/ PE Title to recipient in unlicensed state 1

[P1ENG]

First, let me state that I am not looking for legal advice, rather personal experience or knowledge of any disciplinary action.

Background: I became a licensed engineer by taking ONLY the 16-hour Buildings structural exam in my home state of Indiana. I am not a civil engineer by education or experience. I was hired as a BSME to do structural building work since graduation and that is my area of expertise (soils [nope], surveying [nope], etc.).

So in Indiana I am considered a PE.
In Illinois (which I am licensed) I am an SE.
In California I am neither until I take and pass a Civil exam.
I am currently licensed in a total of (9) states.

In my email signature I list my name followed by "PE, SE". So my question is, are there any states that would be upset if one of my emails (that originate from IN) found its way to a person in said state? For example, if I sent an email and it was received by someone in CA, could disciplinary action be taken on someone with the titles listed since they are not licensed in that state?

I understand the question is broad and could depend on some circumstances, but I am just looking for anyone that has run into a problem like this.

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[bridgebuster]

I'm licensed and reside in Pennsylvania. Several years ago the state Board issued a ruling that no one could use the term PE in Pennsylvania unless licensed in Pennsylvania. Of course this created a lot of problems, which has since been rectified. Generally, you're safe as long as you're not giving the impression that you are offering services in a state you are not licensed.

 

[sandman21]

The same would apply to this board, if someone in the UK reads your post are you in violation?

If you are trying to pass yourself off as a licensed engineer in CA then you would have issues, had an engineer from Texas write a letter regarding issues in CA and he was politely told not to do that again.

When you pass the CE exam in CA you will still not be an SE, that is a separate test and separate experience you will need to get.

 

[P1ENG]

@sandman21, I have looked into CA (and various other states that require you hold Civil PE for getting SE). You are correct. I would have to become a PE first (pass civil exam) and then hold my license for 3 years before I could get my SE. I would also have to pass the CA specific tests that they have (seismic plus another I think). Fun times!

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[JStephen]

See this link for how Texas has worked this. Note that this relates specifically to instate residents who are licensed out of state, not to out-of-state residents corresponding in-state, though:

https://engineers.texas.gov/nm/pa10_responseletter.pdf

The flip side of this is some states that require people to identify themselves as a PE.

Simplest way would be to put "John Doe, Indiana PE No. XYX" and leave it at that.

 

[JAE]

I think it depends on who you initially send the email to and the intent of the communication as mentioned above.

If you send an email to a client in Indiana with P.E. after your name, then you would be OK. If someone forwards that email to someone in Florida, where you aren't licensed, then you are still OK as you have not sent or intended to send to anyone, any client, or entity a message stating that you are a PE there. This is basically what sandman21 states above about the UK. You can't control what others do with your email.

If you send an email direct to a prospective client in another state where your signature includes PE or SE and you aren't licensed there - there could be an issue with that state's board in that you were essentially portraying yourself as an engineer there when you were not.

I'm licensed in about 25 states and have Name, P.E., S.E. in my email signature blocks and generally don't worry too much about the signature unless I'm directly marketing to someone in another state where I'm not licensed. I'm licensed in TX so probably should read the link that JStephen provided.

Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here:
faq731-376

 

[P1ENG]

What if you are not in responsible charge of work being done in the state (a senior engineer will be sealing), however you still perform the work, have conversations with the client, and maintain the titles in the signature. I know I have done that in the past. I also know this is hypothetical but it just seems litigation is prevalent and common sense is lacking. I feel relatively safe as long as I feel I am being ethical but some of those case studies on ethics have outcomes I don't agree with.

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

Easy answer is to include an "*" and a list of the states where are you licensed in your e-mail address. That way you are clear where you are licensed and what license you hold. I do this on e-mail signature and on my business cards.

Mike Lambert

 

[StrEng007]

In my opinion, it should not matter as your engineering title is a display of your qualification to practice as a professional engineer. Whether or not you're licensed in a particular state does not change the fact that you have earned the title of a PE/SE in at least one state.

The only issue is whether or not you're offering consulting services to a state in which you're not licensed, and you're solely responsible for the work. If the work being performed is going to be signed by an engineer (other than you) licensed in that state, they become the person responsible as you're technically working under their "guidance" or "title" etc. In this situation, you're still a PE/SE but you're not the engineer of record for the job or whatever service you're providing. Typically, you wouldn't be communicating with someone for financial interest if you're in a separate state, don't have their state qualifications and don't work for someone that is going to sign your work.

To think of this in a slightly different way... Many building product manufacturers reside in states separate from the state in which their products are being used. For those out of states that require signed/sealed engineering, they may higher a local PE. When this PE sends emails to the manufacturer, the title of PE in their signature may not be recognized by the manufacturer's state system. However, the PE is safe to do so because they are acting as a PE within their territory. Not exactly the situation you're talking about but it's another way to look how someone may view your title.

 

[JedClampett]

OK. For an email you have basically infinite room to explain your license status for multiple states. I'm a PE in these states, an SE in these states and both in a couple of states. But how do you do it on a business card?
I think the whole thing is ridiculous. If you're a PE in one state, you're a PE. You're not offering to seal anything by handing out your business card or sending an Email. Do you think Dr.'s or lawyers worry about this stuff?

 

[StrEng007]

I agree with the others that it may be beneficial to include which states you are licensed if you're worried about it.

 

[P1ENG]

Thanks guys. I am doing continuing education and getting to my ethics and rules portions. This was just a thought that came up when viewing the rules seminar.

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[Lomarandil]

I side with Jed (especially with how simple it is to apply for licensure by comity or reciprocity nowadays). If I'm not a PE in your state yet, but need to be for a particular project, just give me a few weeks.

Granted, I don't actively stamp projects at this point, so I fly mostly under the state's radar.

 

[P1ENG]

Lomarandil, I agree. I just went through this with TX though which was a MUCH lengthier process than I was expecting from one of our great free states. It took me nearly 3 months before I could stamp anything. I started the process early April and just last week was given the green light (PE license issued, Firm registered, copy of PE seal sent in and approved). So sometimes, a few weeks just won't cut it.

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[Lomarandil]

True, there are a few states where I'd hedge my estimate... NJ and IL would certainly have made my list, didn't know about TX (although with the fingerprinting, I guess I should have seen it coming).

And I suppose CA, FL and AK (maybe others?) have their extra tests to take.

 

[P1ENG]

IL was a pain. FL was not bad. I have no experience with the others.

Juston Fluckey, SE, PE, AWS CWI
Engineering Consultant

 

[PMR06]

Just make sure your email is run off a DIY server in your basement and everything will be fine!