Enercalc vs. Tedds (or other)

[JackBolt]

Hello all,

I am considering purchasing a structural software suite for my company (already have STAAD, Bently ADV FDN, RAM Connections) and I have only used Enercalc in the past. I like Enercalc, but I do not like the "black box" issue with the calcs. I read in some old threads from 2001 that Tedds is better and shows the formulas in the output for checking. I would specifically like to get feedback from people who have used both Enercalc and Tedds and could give some Pro's/Con's of each. I would also consider another software if there is something out there that just completely blows away Enercal/Tedds, but I would need some convincing. My work is in a petrochemical plant environment (typically small steel additions, spread footings, concrete grade beams, etc...).

I would like feedback in the next 2-3days as I need to make a decision fairly quickly. I have been given approval to purchase, just need to let them know the package to setup the multiple user licenses(sp?).

Thanks in advance,

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Awhile back I compared Tedds to MathCAD and I remember being unimpressed. I loved the concept, but was really under the gun to put together somme calculations and just ended up sticking with the program I knew best (MathCAD).

But, I'd also be interested in seeing what they've got. Is it just a series of pre-defined (but editable) calculation templates like MathCAD? Or, is it a series of pre-defined (but NOT editable) calculation templates like Enercalc?

 

[JackBolt]

JoshPlum - I have downloaded the Tedds trial software. They give you access to maybe 15% of the available modules for use in the trial which lasts 45days. From what I can tell (in 20mins), they are prepackaged modules similar to Enercalc. My initial reaction is the input is good and the output is very plain...just the facts (calcs). Enercalc puts in a lot more graphics, but seems to omit some of the calcs. I am going to try and compare more completely over the next few days. Looking for any/all input from those who have used both Enercalc and Tedds.

 

[MrHershey]

We have several people here who use ENERCALC. I've also found support to be pretty helpful and responsive. They release updates ALL. THE. TIME. Almost gets a little annoying, it wanting to update every time I open it up. But I appreciate the bug fixes and enhancements. So many software companies completely neglect the end users once the product is sold. They recently started offering hosted licensing too, which makes licensing a lot less of a pain than it is for TEDDS (not that this is a concern for the typical engineer, but I have to deal with it trying to get things set up).

We own a TEDDS license until they figure out we haven't paid our bill and then we will be getting rid of it. No one here uses it. Those that would prefer to use something like TEDDS over ENERCALC use MathCAD or make their own spreadsheets in Excel. I haven't spent a ton of time with it, but I wasn't terribly impressed. Doesn't seem nearly as powerful as MathCAD, but isn't as user-friendly as ENERCALC. Kind of in no-man's land in that regard.

 

[JackBolt]

Mark - What type of projects does your company work on typically? Commercial, residential, industrial? I have used MathCAD (looks great) only sparringly over the years and I have developed spreadsheets as well, but I am getting tired of trying to keep up with codes. The latest changes to AISC 360 and ASCE 7 have just made me want to give up on my custom calcs and that's one of the main drivers for looking into a canned application.

 

[MrHershey]

Usually commercial/residential, big and small. Usually unless it's a significant revamping like the recent wind changes in ASCE 7, the spreadsheets don't change a whole lot from code to code it seems. Just takes time to backcheck them again and make sure everything's still correct.

 

[Gumpmaster]

We have Tedds and MathCAD, and I've used Enercalc (5.8) in the past.

It's harder to write your own equations in Tedds than in MathCAD, but the output is much nicer and they have built in modules, similar to Enercalc. You can write your own equations similar to MathCAD. Tedds updates their calcs with code revisions on a pretty frequent basis. They have a very large library of calcs that seem to be pretty complete for most common building elements. Request a free trial that includes all the modules. They may be willing to do that.

MathCAD is very nice for writting your own equations, but as JackBolt said, it takes time to keep up with code revisions, and you're on your own for checking your calcs. Also, there aren't very many pre-made sheets for common calcs.

I haven't used Enercalc in maybe 4 or 5 years, but back then it had some things that were easy to screw up and weren't very apparent that they were wrong when you did screw them up. Lots of people use Enercalc and I guess they update their software to take into account the errors that people find, so it may be better now.

If it was my money at stake, I would buy Tedds over Enercalc. I don't think there's anything Enercalc can do that Tedds can't. The bonus is that you can write your own equations in Tedds.

 

[JackBolt]

Gumpmaster - Thanks for your input. Part of the issue is my office is very lean and they keep adding more activities to engineering which is not engineering i.e. scheduling, cost controls, reporting, budgeting, etc... Sorry to say, but my time "engineering" things these days is very minimal. I like the idea of output showing calc detail(which Tedds appears to do better than Enercalc), but then again a nice graphic showing the geometry of baseplates, bolts, rebar, concrete, etc... is very intuitive and easy quite frankly (Enercalc). I am really on the fence.

Is there anyone who really prefers Enercal over Tedds? If so, please give me some reasons. So far, the feedback for Tedds is ahead.

 

[focuseng]

Have you searched the forums yet?

http://eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=322513

There are others too I believe

______________
MAP

 

[flight7]

In my opinion Tedds provides pretty good sketches in the final output. There is typically a check box to turn graphics on and off, just before you hit the final "calculate" button. Or maybe graphics are disabled in the trial version.

FWIW, our office switched from Enercalc to Tedds a few years ago. At the time, Enercalc had become far out of date relative to the current codes. When they finally released an update it was terribly buggy. The black box format made it too difficult to verify output, so we dumped it. While Tedds performs a few calculations a bit differently than I would, I can easily make the changes and move on.

 

[JackBolt]

focuseng - yes, I did see the thread you reference after I sent my original request. After that though I still only saw a couple people who really stood up for Enercalc (yourself included). I have now used the Tedds trial for 2 days compared to Enercalc for the past 8 years. I got to be honest here, I cannot see why anyone would prefer Tedds to Enercalc. The user interface|Enercalc. The output|Enercalc. Functionality|Enercalc. I looked at the RC column in the Tedds trial. You have to enter resultant factored loads. What? Enercalc allows you to enter wind, dead, live, etc... as service loads and then choose a design code such as ASCE 7-10 and it will create all of the load cases. Half the battle in engineering a single member is to input the loads correctly. Tedds makes you come up with 1 load case which is factored already....that's nuts. Maybe I am missing something here. Let me continue. The options for concrete columns in Tedds is: circular or rectangular. Now, ok, these will cover the vast majority of the cases I will likely ever use, but Enercalc allows you to enter a cross, trapezoid, I-shaped member, L-shaped member, octagon, etc... I am just beside myself with confusion as to why others are not using Enercalc more often (especially compared to Tedds). I worked for a global engineering company with over 50,000 employees until about 2 years ago. We used Enercalc. Now I am one of only perhaps 15 civil/structural engineers working for a global petrochemical manufacturer. I am planning to purchase either Enercalc or Tedds and I have to say Enercalc seems to be way out in front from my own personal use, but it does not match a lot of the discussion in this forum. It is just weird. Enercalc certainly has it's own share of drawbacks, but for a general all-purpose engineering suite that covers a wide range of one-off calcs...I would give Enercalc a B+ and Tedds a C-. Just my opinion.

 

[JackBolt]

flight7 - out of date codes does not bother me too much(obviously software manufacturers should try to keep current), because all of the engineering I perform is for a private company and we have an agreement with the local AHJ to govern ourselves. This is very common in refineries/chem plants. Therefore, I do not have to provide calcs meeting a particulat release of say IBC or ASCE. In fact, there are engineers in my company still using AISC 360-89 (allowable stress design). Anyway, I could see out of date codes being a problem with those working in commercial/residential who submit plans/calcs to AHJ. Out-of-date code references would make me dump the software as well. That is not the case with my current employment so I am more concerned with getting a stable, user friendly package that will produce good results quickly/easily. Thanks for your input.

 

[ztengguy]

in my opinion stay away from ENERCALC. The inputs are useless, they lock up, and the screen cant be stretched (at least on my puter). Out put isnt the greatest either.

 

[focuseng]

Hi JackBolt. I agree with you on Enercalc. It is definitely my Daily driver. However, the real power of TEDDs is not in the preconfigured modules but the Word interface where you can adjust and fix everything. That said, I am lazy and like the fact that I don't have to program Enercalc as it is already set up and has many options. Maybe if I spent some more time learning how to do it like the WEBINAR guys do I would be OK. Output may not always be the fanciest or whatever but I have never had a Code review reject my calcs because of this... Its a beam calc on paper, How fancy do you want it?!

Re: Enercalc code issues and program lock ups. The current version is very supported right now and there are no Code issues that I am aware of. I have been using enercalc for going on 10 years now. I have no (read "ZERO") experiences with crashed or locked up screens on a systemic level. Running this from WIN98, WIN-NT, WIN-XP, WIN-vista (OK maybe some crashes on Vista, and WIN-7 (64 bit). I even have it running on a virtual WIN-XP inside Win-7 from time to time. I still use the Enercalc 5.8 too for analyzing foundation wall stresses.


______________
MAP

 

[JackBolt]

focuseng - FYI...I pulled the trigger on my recommendation to the company today and it was accepted. We will pursue ENERCALC for at least 1 year and see how useful it is throughout the company. I know I will use it. Have a great day!

 

[RFreund]

It appears I'm too late but I have used both. I would vote for TEDDS becasue it is much more flexible. If you have to prepare calculation reports that are similar Job to Job then Tedds for sure. Enercalc is more simple and faster for individual calcs or random calculations. But I make and alter alot of Tedds for Words calcs (Similar to mathcad but way less powerful). Tedds can be buggy at times and it takes a little bit to learn but in the long wrong I think it is a better package. Well for the most part and depending what you want to get out of your software.

EIT

http://www.HowToEngineer.com

 

[abusementpark]

Enercalc has poor documentation of their modules.

 

[CConrad]

Thank you all who contributed positive opinions of ENERCALC Structural Engineering Library. To address a few of your concerns:

1) ENERCALC is a completely different product than it was 3-5 years ago. We have had problems with lockup but they are largely gone. They are due to the highly complex multi-threaded user interface system becoming out of sync.

2) Presenting all the details of a calculation is hard. With so much capability and so many load combinations to run the detailed output can be endless. We don’t offer endless information because 30 years of experience has taught us you don’t need it. We put in everything we think is needed and keep adding based on user requests. We offer different levels of printout detail and try to list all relevant results in tables.

3) The software itself will detect an update about every 2-3 weeks, however the update installer on our web site actually has new builds far more often. It’s a balance between annoying the user with updates and supplying the most up-to-date software we can.

4) Our documentation consists of more than 50 training videos, 600+ pages of documentation, and a FAQ system. Plus our technical support is highly available. It’s a large software package and we keep adding to it.


Chris Conrad, P.E.
Director of Development
ENERCALC, Inc.
Web:

http://www.enercalc.com

 

[IsaacStructural]

I've used Tedds, enercalc and Mathcad. Personally, I found Enercalc easier and a bit more intuitive to use than Tedds, so if it was a choice between the two, I'd go for enercalc. However, I now use mathcad the most and although it takes some time for me to build my own calculation templates, I appreciate the fact that I personally know what I'm inputting and asking the program to do. In this way the program is especially transparent. Furthermore, mathcad is considerably more powerful than the other two programs.

Here is an example of the increased power of mathcad. I like using mathcad to do bulk solving. For example, I have a program that I built which can solve and design 25 skew beam connections at once (actually I can solve as many as I like, but 25 is my default). This is very nice because I can put all the input into a simple excel box inside the mathcad sheet and all connections are designed simultaneously, this makes calculation preparation and review much simpler and keeps the paper consumption to a minimum when I print a physical copy of the calculation.

M.S. Structural Engineering
Licensed Structural Engineer and Licensed Professional Engineer (Illinois)

 

[WDM]

I've used Enercalc for years. The latest version 6, though challenging at first, plagued with lockups and bugs in now rather stable. I like Enercalc, it is much better than the older version now. Graphics and clarity of input is also much better than old version.

Regarding Tedd's, I tried a demo a few years ago and did not like it. I was trying to find a replacement for MathCad which I had heavily invested in but got worn down with dealing with the new program owners. I still would like to use my many older MathCad sheets but not sure the latest will run them or if the company has changed hands again or not.