Engineer Fees for Site Adapt/Multiple Buildings 1

[JAE]

Alright...here's the concept. An engineer is asked to provide a fee for an apartment project that consists of 12 seperate buildings, all alike, 26,000 sf each.

The engineer must design one building, but the plans will be used for all twelve as the site grading is identical for each.

Since the "labor" involved is for one unit, but the liability is for all twelve, how do most of you figure a fee?

 

[Ron]

Not an easy way to figure fee for this condition, since fees have no relationship to liability! In public work (i.e. schools) design/plan re-use is usually indemnified and the owner takes risk for re-use without the design professional's permission. Otherwise, a fee (negotiable from low of about 30 percent to high of about 75 percent)is appropriate for the DP to ask, even if there is no construction phase involvement.

These conditions are frought with liability as the re-use is perceived to be under EXACTLY the same conditions as the original, which might not (and often is not) the case. Soil conditions might change across a site and certainly from site-to-site, so there would need to be consideration given to that. Also, many issues of design impact are found in construction, so subsequent changes might be able to be done if there is involvement with the follow-on projects...otherwise mistakes might be repeated.

It is likely that the "per design" liability remains essentially the same whether there is single use or re-use. It would; however, be appropriate to be compensated for the risk. Ask for additional compensation. If we as engineers allow the indiscriminant re-use of our work product without our involvement, we are lowering the standard of care of our profession. After all, Elvis is still getting paid for the re-use of his work product and he's been dead over 20 years! (Or has he...anyone seen Elvis at a Burger King lately?)

 

[Qshake]

Great response Ron! Invariably we are contacted and expected to respond to, as if we've nothing else to do, regarding issues that arise from projects in which liability was supposedly a forethought. I can't percieve the remaining buildings to be built without problems with the general details necessary blanket all of the structures.

PS, The King has just left the building!

 

[Ron]

Thanks, Q.
Sometimes our worst enemies are our clients. The unfortunate part, as I'm sure Jae will find out, is that if he doesn't take the project, someone else will take it without regard to the conditions.

Try hard to educate the client and good luck.

 

[RiBeneke]

Have you got any comments on the 'ownership' of the design and the copyright on the design and drawings.
I have not had clear replies when I have asked this question of others over the years.

1) You do the design and prepare the drawings. At this stage they are your intellectual property and copyright.
2) You hand them over to the client for use on a particular
project and you are paid for them. Who owns the intellectual property now (in the absence of any specific agreement) ? Has the client just purchased a 'licence' to use the design on the current project, or does he have full ownership and title.
3) The client uses the design (maybe even without asking or telling you) on another project. Is this copyright infringement ?

Any opinions welcome !
Richard Beneke

 

[Ron]

Ownership of documents is a contractual issue with the exception that in most states, original documents (those which could be changed) cannot be signed and sealed, then passed on to others. This is for obvious reasons...the engineer (or other design professional) would have no control over the changing of the documents.

Often, public agencies require a release of documents for re-use with provisions for compensation on the re-use as well as some indemnification of the design professional for that re-use. This is particularly common for school districts.

While it is arguable that design professionals have some propriety for intellectual property as well as an implicit copyright, as a practical matter, the re-use of intellectual property occurs. Most often this is done without a licensing agreement, just a simple indemnification.

I maintain that we, as design professionals, should educate the client as to the inherent dangers of indiscriminate re-use (little or perhaps no professional liability coverage, no DP involvement in construction, etc.)as well as recognize our own problems with this (no insurance coverage, reduced compensation, etc.)and try to prevent it by contract and involvement.