European Address in ISO Cert

[shulbert]

I've recently been asked to acquire ISO Certs from our vendors that have a European address (of the certifying body) on them. Is this something that other people are being asked to do??

Having the certifying body provide me with a list of their world-wide offices has been rejected. I've been told that a valid PED ISO Cert must have a Euopean address on it.

Is this correct, or am I being jerked around?

 

[heier]

I assume that the PED certificater is for one of the module in the PED directiv - If so - The certifying body needs to be Notified body and pressent on the list made by EU
(link:

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/newapproach/legislation/nb/en97-23-ec.pdf

)
The CE no. refers to the notified number on this list. If they are present on this list, then the PED certificate and the notified bodys number will be suficient. By the way, who is asking for it?

 

[shulbert]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not very experienced with PED, that is why I am asking questions here. I'm having a hard time finding consistent answers. Let me explain my situation and maybe you can guide me. Here is my most recent dilemna.

I purchased pipe fitting from Both-Well Steel. They are ISO certified by Bureau Veritas. Hartford (HSB) is our governing body, (is that our Notified Body?). HSB tells us what is sufficient and what is not.

BV's ISO cert for Both-Well Steel has a Taiwan address at the bottom of ISO Cert. HSB is telling us that the ISO Cert for Both-Well must have BV's European address (France) on the bottom of this ISO Cert for it to be PED acceptable. The BV contact here in the US cannot issue me a Both-Well ISO Cert with the French address. BV Taiwan gave me a letter stating they have headquarters in France, but this letter mentions an Audit Number, NOT the ISO Cert. number, so HSB will not accept this.

BV Taiwan and Both-Well have been hesitant to issue me an ISO Cert with this French address as well. I have been unable to get BV Taiwan to re-issue me this same letter stating BV's headquarters in France, but mentioning Both-Well's ISO Cert number, instead of an Audit Number.

So, my main questions are:

A.) Is this European address on the bottom of Both-Well's ISO cert really necessary??

B.) Is it really necessary to have a letter from BV, which mentions Both-Well's ISO Cert number on a letter indicating that BV's headquarters are in France??

C.) I have a PED certificate issued by BV for Both-Well steel for pipe fittings. However, this PED cert for pipe fittings also mentions this same Audit Number, and NOT Both-Well's ISO Cert number. HSB is telling me this ISO Cert. is not acceptalbe as well. If it had Both-Well's ISO Cert. number on it, it would be.

Your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[heier]

I will tri as good as I can!

The demand for the material certificate is that there has to be a Qualit system approval. PED Annex 1 - 4.3
There is NOwere in PED or in the guideline that says that quality approval also need to be by a notyfied Body.
It also don´t say that the steelproducer need to be approved by NB. The demand is that the material need to be according to EU harmonized stadard.
If I were you: I would ask HSB were they have this demand from. (in PED) or better change to BV

RH

 

[shulbert]

So, why would my NB require ISO Certs from my supplier with the certifying body's European address on the Cert??

Does PED guidelines state that PED Certs MUST note the ISO Cert's number??

 

[heier]

Hi again

Re. So, why would my NB require ISO Certs from my supplier with the certifying body's European address on the Cert??

I don´t know - If The material certificate, indicate BV and the Quality Certificate (ISO9001) are valid and pressent There are no need for it - There are no guideline saying this
(se PED guideline

http://www.tukes.fi/en/Toimialat/Pressure-equipment/)

As I can see Both-Well Steel Have both ISO 9001 and PED approving, what module it is, I can not see - But from my experians they probely have CE0062 as Notified No. This mean that this is HQ in La Defance in Paris. (Is OK)

Again as I say -ask HSB why and where this is stated in the directive.

RH

 

[shulbert]

I just off the phone with HSB, and they pointed me to Guideline 7/2. So, I looked it up and here is what Note 3 says:

Note 3: The certificate of quality system shall make reference to the legal entity established in the Community and its address.

It appears that the European address must be on the ISO Certificate. That's what the rule reads to me.

I wonder by BV won't issue me an ISO cert of Both-Well with their French address on it??

 

[shulbert]

I forgot to add this to my previous post.....

So, it's strange that I have a PED cert for the manufacturing of steel fittings from Both-Well, but I can't get a European address on Both-Well's ISO Cert.

So, in this case, HSB states they would like to see all my certs, and make a decision. I'll update this forum once I get more answers from HSB.

 

[ulyssess]

Guidelines are no mandatory requirements. But the PED contains a similar requirement:
PED Annex I Para. 4.3
"The equipment manufacturer must take appropriate measures to ensure that the material used conforms with the required specification.
In particular, documentation prepared by the material manufacturer affirming compliance with a specification must be obtained for all materials.
For the main pressure-bearing parts of equipment in categories II, III and IV, this must take the form of a certificate of specific product control.
Where a material manufacturer has an appropriate quality-assurance system, certified by a competent body established within the Community and having undergone a specific assessment for materials, certificates issued by the manufacturer are presumed to certify conformity with the relevant requirements of this section."
Thus not only a European address should appear on the ISO 9000 certificate, but also a declaration, that a specific assessment for materials was part of the evaluation.

 

[PVinspector]

Shulbert,

It is a very frustrating situation, and I have long wondered what the purpose of ISO 9001 is for if you cannot use it equally from any country. I have worked for TUV and HSB both, in ASME and PED applications here in the USA, and the situation is that HSB's notified body (HSB International, located in Germany) is forced by their auditors and regulators to require this. HSB allowed what you are talking about, and also ISO "equivalency" agreements in the past, but it simply won't fly with the EU. Nobody likes it on this side of the Atlantic, believe me. While it is true that the Guidelines are not part of the legally binding directive, they are the unaminous opinion of the working group for that type of pressure equipment, and since the PED is a law and not a standard, the Guidelines carry a great deal of weight.

 

[PVinspector]

Fawkes,

Not sure why you say "That isn't true" about my statement about nobody liking the policy on this side of the Atlantic, because you go on to make my case. By the way, I am talking about the USA side of the Atlantic, not the European side. The policy is a hardship and a hassle for US manufactures sending pressure equipment to the EU.

Fawkes wrote:
Requires that the body is established within the Community, it doesn't necessarily mean that the address on the certificate should be in the EU.

Well, if "established within" doesn't mean you're physically there, I am not sure what it means. I would love to see a ruling like you describe, but I have clients who tried to get ruling from the EU, CEN, and have had no luck at all.

What the Germans like to do is put in-service restrictions on certain PED equipment, depending on what standard it meets. They cannot reject CE marked new product, but the PED does not address in-service, so each country can play their own little game to make it harder to send equipment there.

I doubt if the current worldwide economic struggles are going to help things, most countries are getting pressure from citizens to keep jobs home and import less, where possible.