Experience vs Degree 1

[KillerEngineer]

Hi

I went to a 2 year collage where I received a Diploma in Product & Interior design. However, I have now been working as an assistant structural engineer for 1 year now.
I have since enjoyed my work and learned a lot in the process. I work mostly with making CAD plans and 3D modeling. At times I have helped with calculations in staad or similar programs.

I am very curious however, what my prospects look like. Considering my education had nothing to do with engineering. And when could I expect any other company to be willing to hire me, if I decide to switch companies?

Thanks

 

[apsix]

I would class you as a structural engineer's assistant rather than an assistant structural engineer. I doubt that you would be doing much more than drafting if you changed jobs.

If you want to be an engineer you've got to get back to study. Have you asked your current employer about your prospects? Maybe they will sponsor you.

 

[KillerEngineer]

What is the difference between assistant structural engineer and structural engineer's assistant? I figured it was the same.
I havent asked my employer, but looking around, it takes around 6 years before managing a project. And I think sponsor me isnt possible... Its not a big company

And wont I learn more by working? rather than going back to school?

 

[IRstuff]

In one case, you are a junior engineer; in the other case, you're an engineer's gopher.

In any case, without an actual engineering degree, your future job prospects will be severely limited.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[TheTick]

Another "Education vs. experience" debate. For every story about the gifted guy who can do it all without having gone to school, there are a dozen anonymous drudges who really do need to know the things they should have learned in school.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Tick: Are you suggesting that the "must go through my college notes" brigade are the anonymous drudges?

- Steve

 

[Lion06]

Unfortunately, if you want to be licensed as an engineer and have any job prospects outside of a anomoly of a company that is willing to let you work as an engineer and train you without the requisite knowledge that comes with basic statics/dynamics/strength of materials/analysis, and a few design courses, you're going to need to head back to school.

There might be a few states that will license you without a degree, but you need so much experience under a PE that it becomes a little ridiculous really.

 

[KirbyWan]

Engineering education is sort of like being give an big bag of tools and being shown how to use them. Being a good engineer is having used those tools until mastery is reached. You could pick up a few tools and figure out how to use them and even master them, but without the degree noone will let you into the guild hall. Am I being too anacronistic? It's just to suggest that both college and experience are needed. The college gives you exposure to many different sets of tools some of which you will never use again, but knowing they're out there does help. Experience is mastering those one or three tools that you use every day.

I'll stop here before someone calls the metaphor police.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

 

[frv]

KirbyWan touched on exactly the point I'd make regarding Degree vs. Experience.

The degree will expose you to some concepts that are not often found in actual design. The problem is that for 95% of structures those concepts or issues are not going to affect the design. However, we are paid to recognize when these obscure issues may be a problem.. often, designing a beam or a column is fairly straightforward, provided you understand a few of the fundamentals..

Much like a doctor who sees 100 patients and 95 of them have a cold... he is mostly paid and trained to recognize and diagnose the 5 other cases. Maybe one of those is very serious and it takes medical school to figure out what it is and how to treat it..

 

[brandoncdg]

You will have to wait about 20 years to get your PE in the states. At that point I am almost sure the states will start requiring some form of Masters to take the PE. Without your PE you can only move up so far in the work environment.

A degree in Interior Design sounds more like an architect focus which is very different from math oriented engineering degrees.

My specialization in school was for structural and back when I was applying for those types of jobs, the companies had me take simple fundamental written tests to see if I knew what I was doing. Doing plug and chug calcs in the computer and doing calcs by hand on a piece of paper with pencil are 2 very different things.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading

http://civildevelopmentgroup.com

http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

 

[ctopher]

An engineering degree will make you more marketable, and more stable.

Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP4.1
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[kepharda]

Typically my employers have classified the type of work you are discussing as a Structural Designer.

It is a step above drafter, but without further formal education -advancement will be limited as you can't oversee or direct the design without a PE License.

That does not mean you couldn't be a Project Manager. Typically these folks do not actually design anything, they coordinate projects by distributing the work, organizing the drawings, making schedules, setting up meetings, interfacing with the client etc.

From where you are now I would guess it would take about 10 years of experience.

A 4 year degree (Businesss etc) would help.

this message has been approved for citizen to elect kepharda 2008

 

[PhilBW]

What engineers learn is school is more theoretical, and what engineers/designers learn from experience is more practical. To be a really good engineer, you need both. Someone with a degree can still get the practical experinece, but someone without a degree can not get the theoretical knowledge. I have heard non-degreed designers claim they can size components based totally on their experience. In a few cases, I have seen them proven wrong and a degreed engineer had to fix the problem.

 

[MechEng2005]

In general, I suspect that any jobs that require engineering knowledge will ask for a BS (or more) in the appropriate discipline. Assuming a reputable school, the BS is basically the school vouching that you know a certain amount about certain things.

Without the degree, you are probably limiting your range of knowledge, as schooling often provides a much broader scope of topics than most actual jobs. This will limit where you are qualified to work from the beginning, as you may have experience in some areas but ZERO in others.

In addition, you are asking the company to take your word for your qualifications. There isn't a school "vouching" for you. Some companies will be more willing than others of course. Some companies like rules, and if the job description says you need a BS, they will throw out your resume without it. Other companies may look over your resume and say, "Well, he/she doesn't have the BS, but has worked on similar projects and might be worth talking to." However, the lack of degree is another limiting factor here.

And finally, I suspect that some companies willing to hire an engineer without a degree are just looking for whoever can get the job done and will expect the least pay. Not to say that somebody without a degree could never be a good engineer. However, I suspect the "best engineers" without degrees are the exception, not the rule. Similarly, I suspect that the best companies to work for hire degreed engineers for engineering positions. Again, there may be exceptions, but...

-- MechEng2005

 

[IRstuff]

There is philosophy, and there is reality.

Reality is that without a degree, your resume typically heads to the round file before any others headed that way.

We can sit here and argue about it, but nothing will change, and nothing should. It's a simple and effective gate. More people are qualified for an engineering job with a degree than not. More people are unqualified for an engineering job without a degree than not. It's simple probability exercise; do you want to spend most of your time interviewing qualified candidates or unqualified candidates?

I've interviewed someone with a degree; he had to trot out a folder of certificates and commendations, but where is the equivalent of ABET for a certificate? And if he were that good, why couldn't he figure out how much a 15% raise would be?

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[KENAT]

I've worked with great Engineers that didn't have a degree.

However...

They were all in their 50's 60's and had started their careers in the UK when a lot more people came up from the drafting board to become actual engineers.

They had also done formal Apprenticeships that included a fair chunk of book work, probably equivalent to a US associates degree or maybe more.

So while I wont say it's impossible for you to find other jobs or advance yourself, you face an up hill struggle and as mentioned above, getting licensed, which is important in structural engineering as I understand it, will be difficult if not impossible.

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[abusementpark]

I can't speak for other disciplines, but in structural engineering, there is only so far someone can go without an engineering background. Even when I finished my BS, I felt I had only scratched the surface of understanding.


However, I have heard of electrical engineers who do commercial building work training workers without engineering backgrounds to be project managers, but I don't know specific details.

 

[berkshire]

I am one of the guys Kenat talks about, although I do not consider myself an engineer. I consider myself a designer/ mechanic.
I served a 5 year apprenticeship in the UK, got City & Guilds certificates and a National certificate in various engineering subjects. Even though in a lot of companies I could do the work assigned, I was still held back by the fact that I did not have a bachelors degree in engineering.
I got around that, by starting my own business and hiring people with the smarts I did not have.
If you have the opportunity go ahead and study for your degree. Go ahead and get it. Several years down the road it may be the difference between having a good job and being unemployed.

 

[Ron]

As someone mentioned, there are several states in the US that will allow you to take the exams without a degree, provided you have worked in an internship of typically 10 to 12 years. That only allows you to take the two exams necessary for licensing. You still must pass the examinations. The Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) is the first exam and is a bear if you have not been through engineering school or you have waited to take the exam several years after graduation. It's tough enough if you take it in your Senior year of engineering school.

Then comes the Principles and Practices exam. It's the one that determines if you have the skills to practice engineering independently as a licensed professional engineer. If you decide to go the Structural Engineering route, in many states you'll be required to take TWO exams beyond the FE.

All of that is not easy. If you want to be an engineer, those are the hoops you'll have to jump through. To shortcut the process, go to engineering school. You can become licensed in a meer 8 or 9 years, not 12 to 16 years.

Very, very few people who have not gone through engineering school are successful in passing both exams. It's possible, just not probable.

 

[KirbyWan]

PhilBW said:

Someone with a degree can still get the practical experinece, but someone without a degree can not get the theoretical knowledge.

I disagree that someone without the degree cannot get the theoretical knowledge. I know that learning technical matter from a book is much more difficult then in a classroom environment. But in-the-book learning is just as possible as on-the-job training. One of the key skills learned in achieving a 4 year degree is how to crack a book and figure it out when needed. But all those books are available and many are free at your local library.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.