Fascia Applied to Brick Veneer

[Boiler106]

I have a fascia weighing 7.5 psf that my architect is proposing to anchor to existing 4" brick veneer with cold formed framing backup using hat channels and tapcon screws. The wall is approximately 20ft tall.

Governing code is IBC 2015, TMS 402-2013, SDC B.

Has anyone done similar work? I dont prefer to attach to brick veneer and was wondering if there is a code reference im missing that would tell me im not allowed to do this.

Any tips would be appreciated.

 

[phamENG]

I'd want some sort of verification of the condition of the veneer ties. As long as they are appropriately spaced and in good condition, I don't think I'd have much issue with a lightweight, distributed covering.

 

[dik]

You generally don't want to attach to veneer. Anchoring to masonry behind it can be problematic. I often encounter people wanting to support decks and ladders to veneer.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[KootK]

Is it truly just the facia board attached directly to the brick? That sounds like a weird setup with no overhang etc. Or is the entire overhang cantilevered from the brick? If it's the former, I wouldn't sweat it regardless of the situation with the veneer ties. If it's the later, I'd be pretty hesitant to do it at all.

 

[phamENG]

Since the 'fascia' was given as 7.5psf, I figured meant essentially furring out from the brick. Like putting hat channels the full height of the wall, and then screwing some insulated aluminum panels to it. So more 'facade' and less 'fascia.' Maybe a sketch, Boiler?

 

[KootK]

That would certainly make more sense. Perhaps it's the cornice definition below. I'm probably biased my time in the wood truss industry. Fascias everywhere...

 

[XR250]

I'd want some sort of verification of the condition of the veneer ties

I agree with this but have no idea how to execute it with any reliability.

Maybe try to support the vertical load of the cladding on the foundation and just use the brick to resist the buckling and wind loading - in which case the non-seismic load has not changed.

 

[phamENG]

XR - I think it would depend on the age of the building. I'd have them carefully open a few holes in the veneer large enough that it should capture 2 ties in each direction. If they are there and in good condition, great. If not, no dice. If they don't want to do that or if the ties are in bad shape...have them put in the Simpson Brick Veneer Ledger hangers at some vertical and horizontal intervals, install exterior treated wood ledgers, and then mount the hat channels to those. I'm not certain how those would work with light gauge backup, but I'm sure there's a way.

 

[Boiler106]

My apologies, by fascia i meant a facade which is actually an LED panel (6" total thickness, 3.5 psf) with plywood backing supported by horizontal 7/8" channels at whatever spacing i choose.

The building is around 14 years old in the southeast and in relatively good condition.

From a seismic standpoint, it represents less than 10% of the building mass, and the wind pressures are far greater than the seismic forces on the face of the wall.

 

[Ron247]

If the panel is not cantilevered past the brick very far, I do not think I would be that concerned about it. But in if the condition is that the panel has a substantial cantilever and is creating a rotation on the brick I would not do it.

As far as wall tie condition, the following also need to be considered in addition to the visual condition of the wall tie.
1. The type of wall board the wall ties attach to can affect longevity and how well it performs. I remember in the 70s when energy efficiency was just starting to be considered, someone came out with a 1/2" styrofoam insulation panel that used those small beads. The outer layer was like a thin tin foil that you could easily pop a hole in. If you popped a hole in it, the beads would slowly break loose and fall out. This made the wall tie wobble and in compression, it would move towards the house. So panel integrity is a big deal in the long run. Some panels are not that good for wall ties. Anything that repeated push and pull could damage needs to be considered.
2. They made the carpenter's install the wall ties while we were putting on the exterior sheathing rather than the brick masons but no one knew why. Years later I learned if the brick mason's install them, they will install them as they work their way up. That means they are banging on a wall stud to install a wall tie but that is shaking the stud and loosening the wall-tie below they installed about an hour earlier. The banging messed up the bond of the corrugated metal in the wet mortar joint. Even though the tie looked good, it has a poor bond to the brick.
3. Wall ties should slope downhill from the wall to the brick, not from the brick to the wall. Brick to wall makes a slide for the water to run towards the house after it seeps through the brick. Eventually it will leak. In the old days, I know they were not using galvanized nails like they do now. I think code now requires galv fasteners.
4. The distance from the bend in the tie (bend the vertical tie at some location to make it horizontal) to the wall fastener can become an issue. If they bend right at the fastener it is not a big deal but say there is an inch from the bend to the fastener. The brick can move outwards slightly when suction or outward movement occurs. I think the correct way has 2 bends, at the fastener and near the brick mortar joint.
5. As with anything with multiple possibilities, you have any combination of the possibilities.