Fire Alarm Primer

[TECMSC]

Hello,
I'm looking for a generic "primer" on modern Fire Alarm System Architecture. The intent is to share info with building engineers.

If someone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. I've searched the web but mostly come up with consulting services. My next step is to contact manufactures.

Thanks.

 

[stookeyfpe]

Why not use a competent fire protection engineer? The path your choosing means "engineering by salesmen."

 

[cdafd]

Waht do you mean by primer???

as in a book on fire alarms??


you might contact carmel fire protection 831-624-8303 he gives a good class and book along with it,

or are you looking for something like this:

http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product...c_pid=2502&link_type=cross_sell&cookie_test=1

or:

http://www.nationaltrainingcenter.net/products/1238.xml

or :

http://www.amazon.com/Low-Voltage-Wiring-Security-Systems/dp/0071376747?tag=dogpile-20

 

[TECMSC]

stookeyfpe,
interesting that you mention "engineering by salesman", this is/was a direction I was considering. I don't think a FPE would be willing to work on my budget for this project

cdafd,
for this purpose, it needs to be an up-to-date short introductory type pamphlet/form/?? where answers for a multiple choice test can be drawn from. Essentialy, I need to develope a 10 or 15 question test, nothing complicated...just need to get people thinking (including myself!)about modern fire protection systems. I'll give the carmel # a call.


great links, I believe this could be usefull. Thanks for the carmel #.

 

[stookeyfpe]

Great - sell me your stuff because you attended a one day seminar with lunch and cocktails.

Me - I studied fire dynamics, analysis of fuels, and chemistry as well as thermodynamics.

You'll make a great fire alarm designer.

More strobes and audibles please - you lack any acumen of the intent or design of these systems.

 

[TECMSC]

"Great - sell me your stuff..."
I'm not selling anything.

"Me- I studied..."
You sound knowledgeable.

"You'll make a..."
I have no intention of being a fire alarm designer.

"More strobes and auidibles...acumen..."
Your correct. Pardon me if I don't have the knowledge to design fire alarm systems, I believe you read too much into my post. I have no intention of designing a fire alarm system, just gathering information.

Does this mean you would like to put together a 10 or 15 question quiz as described in my previous post? The intent is to familiarize the layperson with fire alarm systems.

 

[FFP1]

It sounds like you want to provide training or increase the general understanding of fire alarm systems for your building engineers. If this is the case......you might want to ask the fire protection contractor who conducts the inspection services (as required by NFPA and nearly all states in the USA) to provide a little training for your building engineers during the inspection process.

A short quiz would probably be a waste of time, but a tour of the facility with some specific training on the fire alarm system can significantly increase awareness and provide a comfort level with the fire alarm systems. This time is well spent and can make a big difference during a true emergency.

 

[TECMSC]

This is the case. I still need to develope a "very basic" primer for general understanding. The site specific training by the loacal fire protection contractor sounds like a great idea in addition to the "primer"
Thanks

 

[stookeyfpe]

And again: Engineered by Salesman

You need to understand and respect that fire alarm design (just like fire sprinkler design and code analysis) are almost their own disciplines when you are Fire Protection Engineer. I specialize in certain areas.

You want to be fire alarm person. Fine. But understand all of the the elements.

And don't submit your plans to me. You'll never get approval because you will lack the basic acumen to perform the design.

And factory trips are just that - interesting, helpful, but do not equal design time.

I am being defensive because of the number of idiots out there. I am not sure what you are wanting to accomplish. I've worked very hard in this career and the internet is not a venue for understanding all of the variables I discussed. I applaude whatever you want to accomplish.

So, what is the goal?

 

[TECMSC]

stookeyfpe
I'm in the process of trying to educate the layman/novice etc (of which I am) regarding the very basics of fire protection systems...a very high level overview because managment tasked me with this!!

FFP1 and CDAFD hit the mark fairly well...e.g. nfpa resources and training to promote general understanding for building engineers. If we have an issue that requires in depth expertise or time commitment in e.g. HVAC, Electrical or Fire Protection, we would hire a consultant. My task is provide a vehicle to promote general understanding of the subject.

Quite frankly, I've had very little experience with fire protection systems, hence the post on this board!

 

[stookeyfpe]

Knowing the intent I suggest you purchase the Fire Protection Handbook from the National Fire Protection Association. It has a very good chapter on fire detection and signalling systems.

And I apologize if I was defensive. It's just that I've suffered numerous frustrations when MEP professionals enter the fire protection arena. If we FPEs were called at the front end, we can save the clients lots of money and prepare a solid, reliable and cost-effective design solutions.

 

[FFP1]

I agree with stookeyfpe's most recent post.

I am also a FPE and my company is primarily focused on inspection and engineering services.......it can be very frustrating conducting inspections or repairs when a company or person, who lacks knowledge/understanding of the applicable codes, installed or designed the sprinkler system or fire alarm system.

In the great state of Georgia, state law requires certified fire protection contractors for these projects. The cost associated with making changes after completion of a project is almost always more than the expense of involving a qualified FPE during the design stage.

 

[TECMSC]

I figured that there must have been a reason for the tongue lashing I received, but I can take it. I can understand both of your frustrations and appreciate your comments.

This type of forum is great, but sometimes the intent is hard to discern from an email. Again, just looking for info.

 

[DavidCR]

I understand the frustration, I live in Costa Rica, I could manage to get some formal studies on FP, and it is incredible the kind of installations you can see here, in a country that the FP regulations are just starting to improove since the NFPA standards are recently been adopted here.

There are lots of people everywhere that when kids wanted to become firefighters and now they are trying to solve their psicological problems trying to get involved in FP, "it is a tough field of work for an FPE".

Going to the point: as a Fire alarm "primer" I would sugest NEMA TRAINING MANUAL ON FIRE ALARM SYSTEMS (I have the 1997 ed., you can find it on (Global Engineering Domecuments or NEMA). You can see contents and first pages on

http://nema.org/stds/complimentary-docs/upload/FireAlarmTrainingMan.pdf

 

[rbulsara]

TECMSC:

May be you want to narrow down your nebulous question. What eaxctly do you want to tell building engineers about the fire alarm?

As for primer goes, refer to some websites of leading manufacturers and read up their catalogs and system operations. There is nothing wrong about learning "features" of a given sytems from 'salesman" but not the engineering.

 

[TECMSC]

rbulsara
i suppose going from nebulous to less nebulous is part of the learning process...FWIW, i am learning about fire alarm systems.

DavidCR
i appreaciate your comments.

i did find some manufacturer's data and a NFPA Fire Alarm Systems Workbook. The workbook includes info on codes-standards, science of detecting a fire, fire alarm system components, how fire alarm systems operate,
system interface guidelines, design review basics etc

i'll be using these two references.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT DESIGNING A FIRE ALARM SYSTEM

 

[rbulsara]

TECMSC:

Well, you still did not clarify as what in specific you want to know and then tell the buidling "engineers". Supposedly the building engineers do not already know that.(according to you). You got as clear answers as your question is.

If this remains your attitude you will not get much help here or elsewehere in life.

 

[TECMSC]

rbulsara
i'm not specific because i haven't yet read the material! my point was to take an idea (fire alarm systems) from concept(nebulous)to concrete (less nebulous) i.e. presentation to quiz on presentation.

Why am i getting reprimanded?

 

[rbulsara]

OK. Your posts comes across as if you are evading something for some reason.

You still need to break up your topics:

1. Codes and standards:
NFPA 72. This will tell you performance and basic features and smoke/detector spacing required by code.

NFPA 101- Life Safety Codes
You also need to refer to ADA Guidelines.

2. How the system works: Learn thru manufactures publications and catalogs. Notifier, Edwards, Siemens, Simplex are some mfrs. in the USA/Canada.

3. Be friend someone who knows fire alarm sytems.

4. Try NFPA handbooks on fire alarm. Visit

http://www.nfpa.org

and do some rearch

This will keep you busy for months. Then you need to know how it interfaces with water sprinkler, gaseous or foam type fire suppression systems.