Fire Hose Cabinets in Psychiatric Hospitals 4

[mechanical3010]

Is it permissible to use regular fire hose cabinets (having non collapsible rubber hose reels or those equipped with collapsible fabric pipe rack in patient's residence of psychiatric hospitals or are there additional safeties lockable cabinet etc.), that are required by the code to make the hose safe or inaccessible to patients with suicidal tendencies?

 

[stookeyfpe]

I've never such a condition contemplated in NFPA 14.

What Class of standpipe is being specified and what building and fire code has been adopted in the jurisdiction?

 

[NJ1]

I have never seen any specs pertaining to psychiatric hospitals.

Could be a special spec for the insurance code.

 

[stookeyfpe]

There is no such thing as an insurance code. We have insurance regulations, but they don't write codes. They write recommended practices.

 

[LCREP]

NJ1 you had me wondering too on the insurance code thing. Been on the insurance side for 31 years, never heard of the insurance code. Now as Stookey says we write recommendations that MAY include more then the code requires based on our underwriter's desire. Perhaps that is what you met.

Any how have a great holiday.

Stookey u too..lol

****************************************
Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

 

[cdafd]

IFC does allow fire extinguisher and stand pipe cabinets in places of restraint to be locked

Nfpa 101 should have similar language

 

[NJ1]

LOl wow what a sense of humor. It was a type error because i meant to say regulation. I am well aware of who writes the codes

 

[pipesnpumps]

Neither NFPA 14 or NFPA 101 address this, that I could find in a text search for standpipe. If it is in an NFPA document, it might be in NFPA 1 (uniform fire code) which is analogous to IFC.

 

[DRWeig]

Old hospital engineer here -- this won't be covered in building codes. Check the health-care regulatory agencies or accreditation agencies for psychiatric institutions. In my state (Tennessee, US), it would be the department of health and the joint commission for accreditation of health care facilities (JCAHO).

Your location may have different governing authorities, but look to health not building code.

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

 

[mechanical3010]

Adherence to the local codes is indeed important, but a parallel objective is to make all installations reasonably safe in psychiatric patient residence, emergency building, etc. It is a bit hard to visualize how a non collapsible rubber hose could be wrapped around the neck, unless of course the patient is strong and determined.
I wonder if there are statistics of the general practice adopted by most mental institutions about Fire Hose Cabinents. If the majority of such facilities require lockable cabinets, then it would be the definite way to go.
If only a few specify such cabinets, it could imply that the absence of a consensus about their need from safety standpoint. I wonder if is the area of Factory Mutual or UL!
Any comments about this would be appreciated.
of our particular locality was not the only consideration in the mind but I did not speak my mind for the readers. it was not spelled out

 

[pipesnpumps]

Taking your thoughts one step further, one would think a lockable hose enclosure would need to have no glass and have specially keyed fasteners (allen wrench or star shape) to prevent removal/disassembly as a means of opening it.

For me, common sense always prevails over code. Sure meeting code minimum keeps you out of gross negligence when held against regular "standard of care", but if one overlooks something like this they could still look at a very heavy defense cost in a civil suit.

It depends on the contract, but if you are held against the "highest standard of care", then your liability is virtually unlimited. From a legal standpoint that means NONE of your peers think you could have designed it differently and avoided the negative outcome that started the lawsuit.

but that is another discussion. Bottom line, in the abscence of clear data or proven approach, I would do what makes the most sense.

 

[cdafd]

The international fire code allows

Fire extinguisher cabinets and

Standpipe cabinets to be locked



Will try to check nfpa 101 tomorrow

 

[stookeyfpe]

I'm still trying to figure out why Class II (which is what they sound like based on the original poster statement) standpipes are required.

CDA: Cite the code section because I don't see it for Group I-2 occupancies.

 

[cdafd]

Extinguishers is 906.8 2003 IFC and cabinets are 905.7.1


The trick is I-3. Exception which I have seen mental hospitals where patients are under restraint or security

Even though I-3 does not list mental hospitals!!!!!

So I guess you have to look at each facility to see what they are doing to the patients

 

[cdafd]

from 101

22.1.1.1.2 This chapter establishes life safety requirements for the design of all new detention and correctional facilities, other than the following:
(1) Use Condition I facilities protected as residential occupancies in accordance with 22.1.4.3
(2)* Facilities determined to have equivalent safety provided in accordance with Section 1.4.
22.1.1.1.3 Detention and correctional occupancies shall include those used for purposes such as correctional institutions, detention facilities, community residential centers, training schools, work camps, and substance abuse centers where occupants are confined or housed under some degree of restraint or security.


22.3.4.2 Initiation. Initiation of the required fire alarm system shall be by manual means in accordance with 9.6.2, by means of any required detection devices or detection systems, and by means of waterflow alarm in the sprinkler system required by 22.3.5.2, unless otherwise permitted by the following:
(1) Manual fire alarm boxes shall be permitted to be locked, provided that staff is present within the area when it is occupied and staff has keys readily available to unlock the boxes.


22.3.5.4 Portable fire extinguishers shall be provided in accordance with 9.7.4.1, unless otherwise permitted by the following:
(1)* Access to portable fire extinguishers shall be permitted to be locked.
(2) Portable fire extinguishers shall be permitted to be located at staff locations only.





some reason not in the standpipe section:::



22.3.5.5 Standpipe and hose systems shall be provided in accordance with 9.7.4.2 as follows, unless otherwise permitted by 22.3.5.6:
(1) Class I standpipe systems shall be provided for any building over two stories in height.
(2) Class III standpipe and hose systems shall be provided for all nonsprinklered buildings over two stories in height.
22.3.5.6 The requirements of 22.3.5.5 shall not apply where otherwise permitted by the following:
(1) Formed hose, 25 mm (1 in.) in diameter, on hose reels shall be permitted to provide Class II service.
(2) Separate Class I and Class II systems shall be permitted in lieu of a Class III system.

 

[mauricestoker]

Try a search on "environment of care" and "mental health".