Fire safe Valves 2

[srini66]

Is it required to conduct a Fire safe test when the supplier claims that his valves are to Fire safe design, but no certificate. If there are 20 line items ranging from 2"to 36" with different pressure ratings and materials , then the supplier has to fire test 20 valves which cannot be used after the test? What are the options ?
This will be very expensive for the suppliers/ customers particularly when the body material is Inconel or some other exotic material !

 

[hacksaw]

would you personally warranty the valves to be fire safe without proper certification, and set aside the financial resources just in case they failed?

 

[LittleInch]

you appear to have done no research or not asked the vendor the proper questions.

It didn't take very long to discover that for the ISO code used for fire testing, a test on an 82 valve will satisfy all valve > 82 for the same design. Therefore these valve will have a fire safe certificate for the valve type, not for each valve size.

Are you asking out of curiosity or as a purchaser, vendor or what?

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way

 

[LittleInch]

82 should read 8"...

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way

 

[srini66]

Many Thanks for your input , it is very useful. I checked some manufacturers websites , but could not find the information you provided.
I need to check the current ISO 10497 standard.

I am not a purchaser or vendor and my question was out of curiosity. some times , I recommend a package of control valves, instrumentation and on off valves to EPC contractors and need to know how the standards are interpreted by customers and vendors !

 

[KhooWL]

when a supplier claimed that their valves are to fire safe design means they must have fire test certificate.

they only need to test 1 size to satisfy all other sizes like what Littleinch had said.

Go Google search under image for "API 607 fire safe" and you will know.
API 607 = ISO 10497

Certificate will show: Example
Test valve
size: 6"

Qualified range of valves
size: 6",8",10",12"

 

[PieterStander]

KhooWL,

There is a small difference but actually a big one between fire safe design and fire safe certified.

Fire safe design means that the manufacturer used the methodology in their design, but has not actually gone through the steps to get it certified at an approved body, this normally means these valves are cheaper.

Fire safe certified, means the manufacturer has actually tested their claim and have the certificates to prove it.

If the requirement for the facility is to have fire safe certified, then a valve that just has a "design" will not be acceptable.

http://www.dlm.co.za:

Over Pressure Protection; Flow, Level & Density Measurement; Automation and Control.

http://www.metermatic.co.za:

Electronic Presets; Additive Systems.

 

[bcd]

Hi,

You would get more feedback on this question in the valve forum. But lets clear a few of the incorrect statements above.

First, API-607 and ISO-10497 are not the same. At one point they were, not not any longer. API has revised 607 and it is only for quarter-turn valves and for valves equipped with nonmetallic seats. ISO-10497 is applicable for all valve types.

Second, neitehr standard requires an independent 3rd party to conduct or witness the test and issue a certificate. The valve manufacturer can test themselves and issue their own certificate. In either case, the purchaser can ask for a copy of the test report and it is to be supplied by the manufacturer.

Third, the standards are very clear on extension of qualification depending upon each size and pressure class that is tested. The tests are expensive and dangerous, so only a few tests are normally done to qualify an entire product range. Valves above NPS 8 are not tested because it is difficult to heat them up to the required temperature within the specified time period. So valves larger than NPS 8 are not normally tested and valves larger than this are qualified by extension of a test of a smaller valve.

Lastly, the origin of the terms "fire-safe valve design" came when the API standard was issued. Note that it originally only applied to quarter turn valves with nonmetallic seats. If a valve specification required fire safe per API-607, and you were trying to sell a metal seated valve, such as a solid wedge gate valve, it was common to say the design was inherently fire safe. Or it is a fire safe design.

To answer the original question, if you are ordering API valves (600, 608, 609, etc.), the purchaser just needs to ask for fire tested product. Refer to the ordering information sections in the applicable standard. If you want fire tested product, and want to ensure you are getting what you need, please ask for a copy of the applicable test report. Just relying on fire safe design and other similar wording will not ensure you are getting what you need.