Fire system & Storage, Spec Haz,etc; Summary palcard posted on riser

[Sdpaddler50]

Chapter 24 of NFPA 13 has something i have never seen. This is a project summary of the storage heights, combustible liquids, etc that the sprinkler system design was based on. This is to be hung on the riser. Keep in mind, this is in addition to the typical hydraulic design placard that is required, that only gives the design, BOR flow, etc. Also, this is in addition to the high pile permit report that often gets filed away, and is never seen again. It's a placard sign on the riser. Seems like a great idea. I am in alot of buildings, and i have never seen one of these posted in so-cal. Curious what others are finding in their area. Link attached.

 

[cdafd]

Fantastic should have been required a long time ago

Have not seen one yet, but have not done a system that needs one

Also if you look in the 2010 edition under anti freeze, a placard is also required for anti freeze systems

 

[stookeyfpe]

The only issue I have with the sign is that it doesn't have a field indicating required clearance between the top of the commodity and the sprinkler. For example, a TYCO EC-25 (CMSA sprinkler) can require either 36 or 48-inch clearance, depending on the stored commodity and the design pressure. Otherwise I'm a proponent of this.

FYI I wrote about this subject in the NFA Coffee Break Forum in March and I got about a dozen telephone calls or e-mails from jurisdictions who were not aware of this provision, which was first introduced in the 2007 edition of NFPA 13.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/coffee-break/cb_fp_2012_13.pdf

 

[Sdpaddler50]

Stookeyfpe, i was not aware of this provision, until i read it in your high pile storage app book today - so thanks for noting it. The fire protection community spends so much time and effort to provide adequate sprinkler protection for high challenge areas. The problem is, we walk away, and come back in a year or two, and the warehouse guy decides he likes the flammable liquids in rack A, as opposed to rack B, that had the in-rack sprinklers. Your case study about the fire where this occurred is dead on, and a good read. I cant tell you how many times i have seen inadequate protection because of warehouse operators (and other occupancies) moving things around. In my area, fire officials in some cities are not conducting annual visits to monitor this - budget cutbacks i suppose. I'd like to see the posting of this document enforced.

 

[Sdpaddler50]

I am writing an article on suppression mode sprinklers, and some of the aspects associated with storage incompatability with these "ceiling only" systems. I work in only one state (albeit a large one) and i have never seen the NFPA 13 storage description placard posted. I am curious if others are seeing this placard (link attached) in their area. If you are, would you mind telling me what state, and whether the practice is enforced. Thanks.

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

I've had an issue with the existing placards for some time now. It's been growing into a pet peeve.

The metal hydraulic placards are one problem. As currently shown in the example in the 2010 handbook, most of the time these are filled out using magic markers but where I am it is hot, humid downright tropical. It might be the heat but I can tell you if you fill one of these out inside of five years you will not be able to read it. I don't know where the "ink" goes but it is gone usually replaced by one or two black dots.

How do you fill out the density area placard, that has to be metal, for an ESFR system or something that requires end head pressure? There is no "area" but a head count and there isn't a density either so how do you fill one out? What I do is put down "12 heads" in the area and "52 psi" or whatever in the density box then fill the required supply at the base of riser.

I got job we are finishing up tomorrow; 900 ESFR sprinklers and before me is the placards I just finished. Metal signs and magic marker.... looks pretty and all but I know in five years there is no way any of us will be able to read it. Yeah, and then there is the metal letter punches.... right, we all use that.

I would like to see the hydraulic and design placard combined into one sign and let's forget the metal... 1954 happened a long, long time ago. What we need is a special "picture frame" where you can seal a printed document inside so water/moisture can't destroy. I know it isn't metal but it would still last longer with our marked up metal magic marker signs. How about if NFPA 13 specifies "archive paper" and "archive in" in an "approved water proof frame" mounted next to the riser? I would like to see 8 1/2 x 11 frames so you could even include a small diagram showing where the riser is, locations of the inspectors test connection and any low point drains. 20 years from now whoever inherits that system will appreciate that little sign.

This way we could make up our own signs that more fit what we are doing.

 

[PRinspector]

I've had an issue with the existing placards for some time now. It's been growing into a pet peeve.Amen to that the other day I went to an acceptance test where the sprinkler company wrote the data over the protective clear film that comes with the data card with a permanent marker. Yes, I had to point that out and told him that I wanted the data scribe on the data plate. How about if NFPA 13 specifies "archive paper" and "archive in" in an "approved water proof frame" mounted next to the riser? I would like to see 8 1/2 x 11 frames so you could even include a small diagram showing where the riser is, locations of the inspectors test connection and any low point drains.This sounds like a great idea.

 

[stookeyfpe]

How about we AHJs maintain some sembelence of a data base so we know what we have in our jurisdiction? We code officials can be are own worst enemy when it comes to keeping our own permit records. I'm notorious for writing a paragraph about new systems I review in the permit scope. It drives the inspectors crazy but I know in about 2 years, someone is going to walk into a spec warehouse with ESFR sprinklers and say hey, that 1,000 gallons of flammable liquids can't be protected by those ESFR sprinklers. Reliance on a sign as SD2 pointed out is a pretty lousy system of communicating information between the building owner, the fire protection professional and the local FD about the capability and limitations of an automatic sprinkler system.