Florida Threshold Inspection Requirement 3

[GabeIBC]

Hello all,

We're doing a community center and trying to figure out if this building is required to be a Threshold Building which requires a special inspector. The exact language from the Florida Statute defining a Threshold Building is:
any structure greater than three stories or 50 feet in height, or has an “assembly” occupancy classification that exceeds 5,000 square feet and an occupant content of greater than 500 persons

Our building is less than 3 stories and less than 50' in height so we're good there
For the second part there are 3 different 5500 sqft rooms that are classified as assembly (2 gyms and a multi-purpose room) and they each have an occupant load of 400 people. So my questions is, is the occupant content per assembly area or is it the total of all the assembly areas?

If there's anyone with Threshold experience that could weight in I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Ron]

@GabeIBC....I'm a Threshold Inspector in Florida and have been since 1985. Each of the three rooms is greater than 5000 square feet of assembly area; however, their assembly occupancy is less than 500 people....that would not satisfy the second of two requirements for threshold buildings. Since you have three rooms, they could perhaps all be occupied to capacity at the same time, which would interject the threshold building law......so, yes, this is a threshold building. In addition, the local building official can designate any building to be a threshold building, whether it meets the criteria or not.

 

[hawkaz]

GabeIBC- Good question
Ron- Great answer

Can you expound on FBC special inspection requirements a bit? In other states, items like welding and expansion anchor placement require special structural inspection, regardless of project size.
Are these not required under the FBC?

Thanks in advance

 

[Ron]

"Special Inspector" is a confusing term in Florida. Long before the Florida Building Code came to be and before the term was defined in the IBC, a "Special Inspector" in Florida was a Threshold Building Inspector. Since the term has come into more universal acceptance from the IBC requirements, the term is being used in some locations in Florida (but not all) to mean the specialized inspection for various components such as masonry, structural steel, etc.; however, those specialty inspectors cannot serve as Threshold Building Inspectors unless the are delegates of the Threshold Building Inspector of Record (Special Inspector). The FBC only references special inspection of the more general variety in Chapter 17, "Special Inspections and Tests". Interestingly though, the terms "Special Inspection" and "Special Inspector" are not defined in the FBC. Welcome to the screwed up FBC.

A local building official can decide which items need to be inspected by a "Special Inspector". This is usually not done except for a few locations in South Florida.

So if all that's confusing....well, until the Florida Building Commission and those who revise the code get their act together, we're all left to the whims of local interpretation.
The intent in 2001 was to combine the South Florida Building Code (which was based on the Uniform Building Code) and the Southern Building Code (used by all of the state except Dade and Broward Counties). That has never been accomplished as we stupidly still have the HVHZ sections which apply to a lot more than just wind provisions.

 

[GabeIBC]

Great answer Ron I appreciate your time

Personally I agree with you that it is the sum of all the assembly areas but I wish there was more than a single line on this in the FBC to clarify.
As an update, we coordinated with the Building Official and they deemed that it's not Threshold since each assembly area is under 500 occupant load and the primary function is a basketball court. It looks like there is room for interpretation and it can vary from county to county...

Hawkaz- In Florida "special inspector" and "threshold building inspector" are often used interchangeably in Florida but on Florida threshold buildings, they need to be present and sign off on the construction for every structural component in a building including shoring and reshoring. This started from the Harbour Cay Condominium collapse and it has the purpose of avoiding disasters like this on large buildings

 

[Ron]

@GabeIBC....thanks for the update. As you see, a local building official can interpret in their best interests. Threshold buildings are not particularly liked by the Building Officials. It creates another level of paperwork for them, since the Threshold Inspector is obligated to report directly to the Building Official, but paid by the owner.

Early in the Threshold Game, the rules were a little different. The 5000/500 rule was either/or not "and" as it now reads. We have a very strong contractor lobby in Florida. If they had their way, a contractor would be allowed to do anything they want, including not following the building code. I could tell some real eye-openers of things that have happened where contractors were not held responsible for things they violated both in the building code and their own statutory legal obligations. The list is long...I deal with design/construction failures daily!

A few years ago, the contractor lobby tried to lower the statute of repose from 10 years to 7 years. I testified to the legislature against this. Fortunately they didn't prevail. It was dropped from 15 years to 10 years in 2007. Yes, it would have benefited me as a design professional to lower the time to 7 years, but it would have been a disaster to the consumers because construction defects don't always show in 7 years....they usually show before 10 years though.

Yes, the threshold law was enacted because of Harbour Cay. It was truly a disaster that shouldn't have happened. I was a consultant during the litigation, but my client had no responsibility for the failure....they provided the rebar that was improperly designed and placed.

 

[Ingenuity]

On a slight tangent...interesting that the Threahold Inspection commenced after the Harbor Cay Condominium collapse (in 1981, so over 40 years ago).

Whilst there were construction errors as contributing cause of the collapse (top rebar with excessive top cover, i.e. loss of effective depth, re-shoring etc), the more dramatic errors were related to the design/engineering where punching shear calculations were not undertaken, no deflection calcs etc. With an as-designed 8" thick RC flat plate slab (L/D of 42) that should have been 10+". Compound the design errors with the fact that EoR was a NASA engineer (who ultimately gave up his Florida license) without suitable experience with such structures.

As Prof Norbert Delette of Oklahoma State quipped:

"Structural engineering is not rocket science. It is evidently much more difficult."​

Seems that Florida may have been best served with both Threshold Inspections AND SE License Practice Restriction.

 

[Ron]

Ingenuity....you are correct. It was primarily a design error, but construction issues didn't help it. As an example, drop panels were not in the design, which was part of the punching shear problem, but the contractor didn't raise the rebar over the columns, so the negative moment resistance was also low. Bad combination.

 

[dik]

One of the first things I was involved with as an engineer was the supervision of a load test on a failed flat slab. The accessories were incorrect and the top mat reinforcing ended up on top of the bottom steel. the piles/caissons 'punched' through. This was at the Red River Collage where they had engineering classes. I invited the profs to come down with their classes to see the 'classic' yield line failure of the slabs... I marked them out in black highlighter... The contractor was really pist...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[southard2]

GabeIBC,

Basically you have to write the threshold inspection plan and make it either part of your drawing sheets or insert it into a section of your specifications. Basically you must provide the instructions. My standard inspection plan includes language as to what the responsibilities are of all parties involve (owner, contractor, eor, and special inspector).

In defining the roles and responsibilities we basically add what it is already in the rules that govern threshold inspections into the contract. For example the OWNER must hire the special inspector (not the contractor). For the special inspector we will place a limit as to how many of the inspection can be done by his authorized representative, etc... And of course we outline by material type what items the inspector should be inspecting. So we have a section for concrete, foundations, steel, masonry, etc... Nothing to fancy just outlines things that should be inspected such as rebar size, spacing , quantity, placement, etc... We also require that the speciall inspectors be on site to monitor the pours and placements of concrete. He needs to make sure the truck has delivered the right concrete, etc...

We make sure the contractor provides access to the shop drawings and contract documents, etc....

But as the engineer of record it is your job to define what the threshold inspection plan is. We also include the part that states that the threshold inspector must provide a statement at the end of the project that the construction complies with the contract documents, etc...

It is also important that the testing company provide the threshold inspector with all test reports. Often you will find that the testing company have a threshold inspector on staff and you will get both services turnkey.

John Southard, M.S., P.E.

https://www.pdhlibrary.com/