Follow up to Call to Large Company 4

[DistCoop]

All,

I've recently applied for an engineering position at a large utility (approximately 700 people). I submitted a resume and cover letter online, and they will get back to me if they decide I'm worth considering.

Should I give them a follow up call in a week or so? They're such a large company that I wonder if they won't have anywhere to direct my call. Would I ask to speak to the person in charge of hiring?

My only experience is with very small (<10 people) companies, so I may have some things to learn about dealing with large entities. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

 

[rotw]

For me large means +50000 employee, but this is just my view.
How do you know they will get back to you. This was the missing link in your post.

If it was an automatic email response with generic text, then there is no point asking what should be next step for you.

If someone called you or mailed you then it is different. I would not send any email or try to call but let them do their job.

Only in case I have attended an interview physically or over the phone and I am expected to receive an answer then if I see no response for a while I may consider calling or mailing. However from my experience it will not influence the outcome. In case it is a NO it will just get you informed maybe quicker. So at the end, I will do nothing also in this case.

by the way I don't see why the process should be different between large and small companies.

 

[zdas04]

The process shouldn't be different between large and small companies, but it is. A 5-man company will not have an HR puke to hand over the bad news, so the Engineer that is looking for someone will have to tell you the results in person or by phone--might be an opportunity get some feedback as to where you fell short. With more than 100 employees there is almost certainly a designated "no" person and you will just hear "no" and your questions will go unanswered. More than 1,000 and you are unlikely to be able to get into contact with a human at all, you'll just get a very cold silence or (at best) a generic form letter. By the time a company is approaching 10,000 employees, the process will be very formal and the form letters are cast in stone--any deviation begs a lawsuit.

I've never done the find-a-person-on-the-internet thing, but I've heard from people who have done it and they say that a crappy hourly job cleaning grease traps will get 50,000 applicants. An Engineering job can get a million applicants. If you are one of a million, then the online form you filled out will reject out of hand all but 100 or so. If you are in the 999,900 rejects you probably won't hear anything at all. If you are in the short list then you'll get a call or a letter setting up a time for a call. That call will be from an HR puke. 90-95 will be rejected and get a form letter. Only 5-10 of the million resume's will ever be seen by an Engineer. Some of those will be rejected out of hand and get a form letter. The rest will be contacted on a very rigid schedule. If you haven't heard in a month, then you were most likely in the first cut. A call will get you to HR, and there is no way to get past them to the guy who is hiring, and HR will not change their minds.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[oldestguy]

Applying for a job the easy way indicates no ambition, no drive. If that's what they are hiring, maybe a reply will come. Think about it.

 

[KENAT]

So ofg what do you suggest?

Certainly attempts to visit in person or phone up may tend to get blocked by the receptionist, or if you're lucky you may get through to HR to be blocked there.

Now if you're suggesting being creative, I'd be interested to know what you have in mind.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[moon161]

The 'Thanks, but no thanks' communication is rare in any form but silence for job applicants these days. I have gotten a few, the VA was one to let me know the bad news. If you are a contractor applying for perm, this communication can also mark a watershed moment, so to speak.

 

[oldestguy]

While the methods for getting a job interview are many, not all work very well. Employers look at all sorts of things when hiring. Don't give them ammo to turn you away.

Perhaps some reviewing of how to go about succeeding in life as experienced by successful persons might help, now and in the future. For instance there is nothing like rubbing shoulders with those of authority at a common place, such as a church or civic organization , like Rotarians. I heard a seminar on TV from this guy on his ups and downs and his approach sure sounded like a lot of work, but it paid off well.

http://www.amazon.com/Famous-Daves-LifeSkills-Success-Achieving/dp/0966854810

If that large company is in your area, it is likely that some higher-ups are members of local clubs or organizations. Joining or even attending as a visitor might be in the picture. Being unique as to how to go about getting a foot in the door may or may not pay off, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

What engineering organizations do you belong to? Were you active and volunteering? That's another way to meet those in authority capable of steering you in the right direction.

 

[berkshire]

DistCoop (Electrical)
You have most likely heard this before. If you want to get into a large company. particularly when hiring is slow. you have to have a champion in the company, who can get you past HR.
Oldest guy just mentioned some ,but not all of the methods. The primary requisite is perseverance.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

With the litigious society we live in, I wouldn't expect a "What did I do wrong?" question to be answered with any semblance of truth/reality. You may get a truthful answer if it's something along the lines of "We're looking for a senior and you don't have enough experience", but if you flubbed the interview, it's in their best interest to make up an excuse (such as "We're looking for a senior and you don't have enough experience")... and how would you tell the difference.

Who knows, you may get lucky, though...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[TomDOT]

With my current (10,000+) employer, it took something like 5 months from application window closing to actual start date.

 

[DistCoop]

Well... it sounds like the answer is to know somebody. Unfortunately I do not. This is a related but different field, and is a few states away. I guess I'll just cross my fingers and see what happens.

I have not received any sort of email (aside from an automated response indicating they received my resume) or correspondence, so the question was more "how do I stand out of several hundred applicants." It sounds again like the answer is to know somebody.

I suppose I'll have to change my sense of scale as well. 700 people seems pretty big, but perhaps "large" isn't the right word for it.

Thanks all for the comments

 

[zdas04]

Spend some time looking around at this forum. Questions similar to your underlying question come up all the time. The advice tends to be--if you are out of work, you have free time, join your Engineering Society and get active, take one of the jobs that always goes unfilled and do a great job. Volunteer to present a paper. Get to know the other officers. Talk to them about THEIR problems (not yours) and demonstrate competency in your field. About half of the officers at SPE the year I was Chairman of our local chapter have since changed jobs to better situations facilitated by the people they met being SPE officers. "Know someone" is the watchword of successful transitions. You can meet them at church (1 in a hundred people in your church will be in an industry you want to enter), Rotary Club (probably 1 in 50 is useful), Chamber of Commerce, etc. That kind of networking is really useful later in a career, but when you're starting out I think you need more focus for your energies--IEEE or an industry-specific group has a potential for a better return on your time. It does take time.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[KENAT]

If you can find out a name in or near the relevant department, or even a 'position' within that department you could try getting your resume with cover letter to them.

However, there's a good chance they'll either file it in the round filing cabinet or pass it to HR.

There's even a slim chance that when HR get if from that direction they'll be annoyed you skirted their system and round file your application.

However, both real engineering jobs I've had have been found the 'wrong way'. First out of Uni I just sent my resume (hard copy back in 1999) to a bunch of potential employers in the field I was interested in and one happened to end up on the right desk at the right time (actually another got me an interview too). Second job my resume got picked off of career builder or Monster (I forget which now) by an employment agency. So what would I know.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[macmet]

I suggest you start working LinkedIn. Is a great way to find a contact at a particular company. It can take time, but start building the network. You'll have to find someone with some pull at the company that will want you in the company as much as you want to be in it.

 

[ctopher]

I agree, 700 is not a large company.
read the web site where you applied. There may be something that indicates not to call them.

Chris
SolidWorks 13
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[IRstuff]

I guess my definition is different. Any company is "large" if you continually run into people you've never met before, and you don't know what they do.

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

 

[zdas04]

I define "large" as "having an HR department". My old boss defined it as "requiring form numbers on stationary items". Lot of different ways to say the same thing.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

[oldestguy]

There are two groups that I forgot to mention. In one medium sized city I was in there was a group that apparently was an offshoot of a university there. It was called "Technical Club". The members came from many areas, such as public works, university, consultants, industry, construction and just plain folks interested in difference subjects, such as weather, new products, etc. A good way to get to know those that know someone you need to meet. The many small towns as well as cities with "Junior Chamber of Commerce" sections is another way to meet active local "important" people. Even if the job you want is not in your town, at the area you are interested in most groups will welcome visitors, specially similar members. So start where you are now. Numerous civic groups have local clubs all over the country and in other countries also. You probably will have to pay for your own meal however.

 

[rotw]

What I usually do is that I create a folder in my mailbox where I include any correspondance related to a job prospect.
The folder are assigned for 6 months period approximatively.

This allows counting the number of prospect and candidature I've submitted within a certain time frame, then I wait to receive response, calls or even invitation for an Interview. Based on this I calculate my hit rate for the period. Usually average is 2 or 3 interview for approximately 150 resume submitted.

Starting from there I try to adjust things and see over the next period of time if there is an improvement in the hit rate. It is very time consuming but it is what it is.

The problem is that in the meantime, the environment is also changing and changing quite fast I would say.

Make no confusion between recruiter and human resources. Totally different personages. Human resources will not take a decision because their job is to cover their a$$ so they continue doing it even when it is no more required, and when they face a decision taking situation they systematically look around for someone to take a decision for them. When the decision is taken they will step on board and pop up during interview and 1st day at the office to do their show.

Recruiter are okay as they can do something. So it is good to understand the profile of the recruiter. Some have technical background so they can weight your resume and read between the line and evaluate your added value. Depending on the type of recruiter and his personality you may get your entrance ticket.

Some company use their own recrutment staff, some use contactors, some will outsource the process. Get to know how it works via social networking website for example.

 

[oldestguy]

Rotarian:

I'm curious as to how many job offers and actual positions have resulted with your methodology? Seems like a lot of work and time required. How did the interviews go? DistCoop is just getting into the method so your success might be of interest to him/her.