Forensics Structural Engineer 2

[Forensic74]

I have an opportunity to get into a regional Forensics position as a structural engineer in the A/E and industrial industries. I have my MS and have worked a structural design position in those two areas for a decade. I've done forensics in the past, always loved it, but never as a full time position, so I'm excited yet apprehensive at the same time. If anyone has any pointers, thoughts, I'd appreciate.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I have always enjoyed Forensics - but it probably has a "higher" chance of Liability than other types. Check w/ your insurance company. I have done some.

It is fairly easy to "miss" something - only in the fact that you must have all kinds of engineering experience to quantify or qualify what is going on or what happened!!! Are you GREAT in wood, steel, concrete, masonry, thermo, hydraulics, etc?? You will need them all and a whole bunch of common sense to boot.

It often is fascinating - just make sure your CYA language is bullet proof and get paid up front!!

Many owners don't like to hear what is happening or happened and it will cost many thousands to repair!!

 

[Forensic74]

Interesting point to think about. Never felt it would be more liability at least based on my experience.

 

[msquared48]

How do you feel about giving testimony as an expert withess?

You WILL be doing this if you get into forensics, and maybe public speaking. Definitely report writing...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[rowingengineer]

The only part I don't like it the reports.

How could you do anything so vicious? It was easy my dear, don't forget I spent two years as a building contractor. - Priscilla Presley & Ricardo Montalban

 

[msquared48]

Funny thing here. Thirty minutes after posting my first post here, I got a call from a lawyer to be an expert witness.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[Ron]

MM10...while I usually agree with MikeTheEngineer, my opinion is that the liability is actually lower....after all, most of what forensic engineering entails is a statement of opinion (obviously based on investigation and fact, but nonetheless an opinion). Given that, anyone can have an opinion and it can be right or wrong, but that depends on the credibility of those who try to refute that opinion.

I've been doing forensic work for most of my 35 years in engineering. It has now grown to about 60 to 70 percent of my practice. I enjoy it. Here's where I again agree completely with MikeTheEngineer...you have to be well rounded in your engineering capability, with a healthy dose of common sense.

As an example, I commonly run into projects where I use my structural background, my materials background and my geotechnical background to evaluate several interrelated aspects of a project. Attorneys like for an expert to be able to deal with multiple subjects on a project when those subjects are interrelated. It makes his job more difficult if he has to deal with 3 different experts for a floor slab problem for instance. One has to be able to consider the structural component of the slab, the geotechnical influence and certainly deal with the materials in the context of concrete technology. It doesn't hurt to have a bit of construction experience, testing experience and design experience.

Msquared48 knows this first hand as he's about to tackle all of this! Good luck, Mike.

 

[Ron]

...a few more comments..

Yes, you'll write reports. They will be detailed and picked apart by every other engineer on the opposite side. Every sentence you write will be critically read by an attorney and an engineer...keep that in mind.

Yes, you'll have to be comfortable speaking in public and giving testimony. I've given testimony at depositions, trials, mediations, arbitrations and before government bodies such as city and county commissions....all part of the job.

I don't know if you're looking for advice or not, but I'll give you one piece of advice that I try desparately to follow....

The answer has to be same without regard to the client's position...that means that sometimes you have to tell your client something they don't want to hear...just remember that your reputation has to be more important than any single job you take on.

You can help either a defendant or a plaintiff if you approach the task independently and objectively...you cannot afford to be an advocate for your client...be an advocate for good engineering.

 

[Forensic74]

I appreciate the thoughts. Most of what you're saying I've done probably 20% of my time. Will just try to decide if I want to do it full time. It sure pays a heck of a lot better, and I too think that the liability is less.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I have testified about 5 or 6 times - maybe more Generally - I don't like it. AND it has NOTHING to do with what I am testifying about. It is the LAWYERS. You will work on a project for 2-3 years, write your report and send it off. Then 6 months or a year later they call you up and want you to be in a deposition or court the NEXT day. And I can't even remember the name of the clients by then.

Could be the lawyers I have worked with - but it has happened far too often!!

My other bitch is lawyers that "drag" things out forever and ever - just ringing up the cash register. Had one case - fairly straight forward that took OVER 5 years to resolve. I could have personally fixed the problem in about 2 months!! Even at $100 per hour the client would have been MUCH better off!

Otherwise - forensics is a lot of fun!

 

[Forensic74]

I hear that. Are you not getting paid for your time? I have been paid really well the few times I've been deposed. So you think working for developers and architects is less frustrating?

I'm looking at it this way, I'd rather be rushed about giving my opinion than being rushed by an crackhead architect or developer on a building that I'm liable for the rest of my life drawn by worthless cad techs.

 

[Ron]

MM10...sudden happenings are a part of forensic work. Attorneys, like engineers, tend to be procrastinators...plus their schedules are often dictated by court decisions or hearing results. I'm not defending bonehead attorneys, just stating that this is a common issue.

If you are called as an "expert" you must be paid. If you are not, complain to a judge and ask for a hearing. I've had to do this in the past and the result was that the attorney got a tongue-lashing by the judge and I got paid.

If you are called as a fact witness, they are only required to provide you with parking fees and mileage...nothing compared to your hourly rate.

The moral of this story is...don't put yourself in a position that you are only a fact witness.

These are typical of the US legal system, based on English common law. Other areas will likely be different.

 

[casseopeia]

In California an expert witness can demand to be paid at the end of their deposition.

My only advice is not to depend on expert testimony as the primary source of your business. Eventually the insurance companies will get tired of paying experts and attorneys and will cut that work back. It happened to me here in CA back in 2007 and was the main reason I was laid off in 2009. I'm mostly out of that world now, but I hear it is getting bad again.

The one really good thing about forensics is that the more grey hair you have, the more authoritative you look. Watch court TV sometime when they are examining expert testimony and notice the number of times the experts perceived age and experience comes up. It's one of the only good things I can think of for getting old and saggy.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[Ron]

Hey Cass! I spend my life in this world (forensics). Yep..gray hair helps....but experience helps even more.

Been doing it a long time...and yes, you can make a living at it.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

MM10 -

Yeah - I charge about $300 per hour!!! (about 3 times my regular rate)and I want it the minute I am done!

I also include travel and prep time at that rate. If they don't like it- too bad!! Find some other one who has my experience and training!!

 

[Forensic74]

I have a few grey hairs, but probably not as many as you guys Maybe I should grow out the full beard for Movebmer to put on a few perceived years.

 

[Ron]

I charge my normal rate for all work, forensic or not. I also do not surcharge my rate for depositions or trial. I consider that time is time...whatever I'm doing, so I keep it simple. My rates are not low, but I don't get much of a complaint except when I'm dealing with non-professional clients.