Generating plant - Synchronizer

[Sn00ze]

Hello,

I am hoping some one has experience with generating plants. I have this old panel doing synchronizing for our breakers. All of our breakers now have C60, and I am planning on transfering the functionality into them, thus abolishing the panel.

My issue comes from the first picture there. one of the signals (125X bottom left corner)for breaker 152.(that comes from the Line CVT) is being sent to the plant as "TO SPEED MATCHER IN PLANT"

I have no visibility inside the plant so i have no idea where or what the "matcher" is. the type of input etc.

I have no problem sending them the signal of the CVT but looks like this old panel adds a condition to the AC signal (125X open caontact activated by the C60 of each breaker to enable the VT input).

How to handle this signal for the plant? should i use one of the contacts from the C60 to the AC signal and then send it to the plant? i've been at this for a while so im a bit tired, sorry it if is hard to read. hahah

thanks again

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...-4bfe-8b72-1f66ffbf25ad&file=SYNCHRONIZER.jpg

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...f-b8ca-4e0c-a044-ee47f39e77ef&file=asynch.jpg

 

[ScottyUK]

It's an awful quality scan, but I suspect this is a check-sync panel rather than a synchroniser: I can't see speed raise/lower and voltage raise/lower command signals which would typically be found on an auto-synchroniser, and which would (directly or indirectly) connect to the governor and AVR respectively.

Could your mystery signal be a permissive to enable the auto-synchronising gear at the plant?

 

[Skogsgurra]

As a collector of ancient scientific and technical devices, I can appreciate a system like this. But, I would never use it for serious purposes. Vacuum tubes - the technology that made ENIAC tick and also made MTBF numbers in the order of a few hours a reality. Albeit in a quite large system, but in those times there were spare parts available. And trained technicians. None of that is true today. Not to speak of the capacitors and rectifiers - are they Silicon at all? Or selenium? This is a classic availability and maintenance nightmare. It fulfills all criteria:

A. Is it reliable?
B. Are spare parts available?
C. Is documentation avaiable?
D. Does anyone understand the system?

My impression is that the answer is NO to all the questions. And that wouldn't be a problem if it is about a "conversation piece" or an exhibit in a museum. But if the fifth question (F. Is it important for the plant's operation?) is YES. Then do not even think about including it in the system.



Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[Sn00ze]

thanks for hte replies guys,

Skotty, seems like the condition is doing something to that nature. permit the CVT's signal to go through the plant. The Panel is called "Auto-Synch" which is enabled by all of the breaker's C60's as "External Synchronizer" The 94SR contact you see in the picture is what, in turn, activates the C60 to close the breaker.

Hi Skogs,

Yeah it is archaic, whcih is why i imagine they want to dispose of it and move to C60's doing synch-check.

here's pic of the dinosaur

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...372c-44c5-af14-03595a3b89db&file=P1000909.JPG

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...372c-44c5-af14-03595a3b89db&file=P1000909.JPG

the other panel.

https://files.engineering.com/getfi...7082-428a-bf45-c8651c6fda94&file=P1000867.JPG

 

[Hoxton]

I think it is a check synchronizer but this is difficult to establish from the schematic.

If you look at the last photo - the one with the guys arm - you will see a small panel at height, this seems to be hinged to the other panel. The meters are difficult to read, but I think the one at the bottom left is a frequency meter.

Now in the old days, before switchboard automation came in, you would have to manually synchronize. The indication panel, with system volts and frequency and generator volts and frequency meters would be at one end of the switchboard, about two feet square and would be at high level (so you could see it at a distance) and would be hinged, so it could be swung out when in use (and back again when you have finished with it to avoid banging your head on it!). It usually had three lanmps so you could see when you are in frequency synchronization.

From memory there would be a selector switch on this panel so you could select say generator 2.

You then walked down to generator 2 breaker, and closed the breaker when you had synchronization.

You then walked back to the synch panel, turned the selector switch to off and swung the panel back.

Nowadays, I would put a check synchronizer across each breaker. I think in these older sets, because of the relatively high cost of check synchronizers, there would just be one across the synchronizer panel.

I think that this is what you have got here. Another clue is what look like GE electromechanical relays, very 1960's!

We were looking at a gas turbine power station scheme in the 1970's and were perplexed at a timer labeled "Synchroniser warm up time". Further investigation revealed hat the GE Synchroniser was equipped with thermionic valves! (Tubes to the Americans) and of course after enabling the Synchroniser, it had to be held from operating until it had warmed up.

If this is what you have, then please heed the cautions from Skoggsgurra and Scotty above. You might find a museum that is interested, otherwise scrap it and replace with new.

 

[Sn00ze]

Thank you guys. I shall start cold calling museums right away! haha