getting a bigger raise, my career help

[underpay]

based on my username that's the way i feel.

i been working for this company for a few months now. for what i do i feel underpaid.. i'm getting couple bucks less an hour than at my last job, considering my background experience in other jobs..

i took the job because that's what was on the table in terms of finding a decent job. things have changed and now i have offers for jobs that would pay me more money. since i'm up for a raise soon i figured that would be the best time to question my pay with my current employer.

many of my co-workers that have been working there for many years tell me that i do the job better than anyone else that has worked their that did what i do. guess that's a big plus for me to request even more $$ from my raise?

i heard the last guy was lazy (go figure) and on top of that he was making more than i am now..

granted they probably were there a couple more years than i have, but come on, there is a big difference in pay considering my co-workers ask me for help and they are the ones making top dollar!

i want to ask for a $4/hr increase ($2 from my last job and $2 for my job offerings).

one of the lower bosses (who i have not told what i want yet) told me they're going to give me $2 increase. but should i also ask for what current jobs are offering me? i figured if they really like my work they'd keep me and give me the raise.

if not i will tell them i will work til the end of the month. i hope they'd reconsider and know i'm serious about leaving. what would you guys do in my case? just looking for advice.

 

[MadMango]

Search here, there are many topics similar to this one that have been discussed recently. I know not every situation is identical, subtle nuances can have a big effect.

My advice, don't play the money game. If you enjoy what you are doing but think you are under paid, ask for a reasonable raise. If you are denied, move on to another employer. I wouldn't mention the other offers for employment unless you have already interviewed and have accepted their offer.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[KENAT]

Off the top of my head without thinking about it too much.

Start putting feelers out now, looking for a new position (sounds like you may already be doing so).

Get the best raise you can at your current job, ask for what you want and say it's based on typical industry rates or something.

If they wont give you enough, jump ship - after you've already found something.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[whyun]

Early in the career, $1 or $2 per hour difference may seem like a lot. Further along in the career, $4 per hour difference can seem insignificant.

If you are in the process of being licensed, obtaining a degree etc that will place you at a different level, I would suggest waiting until your goals are met, see your employer's reaction to your achievement (without you asking), then make up your mind as to whether to stay or not.

Though loyalty is one virtue I value, more often than not, moving to a different company results in much bigger increase in salary. Whether you will be happier at a new place is another matter.

 

[Krautso]

Don't beat around the bush. Tell them what it will cost to keep you. If they call your bluff, or just can't do it, move on to one of your opportunities. Can't say you didn't warn them.

I remember negotiating a raise with my boss a couple of years ago. I had brought the latest copy of the Engineering Association Salary Survey with me to the meeting,all ready to argue how much I thought I was worth...I got about 30 seconds into my speech and my boss laughed and said "I'm not going to sit through this over $6,000", which was the difference in our numbers. The rest of the meeting was spent discussing how I was going to earn that raise going forward.

If your work is as good as you say then your boss knows it and will pay to keep you.

 

[apsix]

"my boss laughed and said "I'm not going to sit through this over $6,000"
Unfortunately that's often the way, they are quite happy to underpay you if you let them.
They also don't seem to realise that down here in the trenches $6000 can be significant.

 

[Twoballcane]

I'm no grammar cop and I have my own bad habits in writing, but when I saw your title “getting a bigger raise, my career help” and then saw your post with no capitalized letter at the begging of your sentences and so on, it gave me a really bad impression about your work ethics. I hope I’m wrong and you’re not doing this at work.

In order to get a bigger raise, you will have to prove it to your boss at your yearly review. What I have done is keep a small note book right in front of my monitor and every time I receive a new responsibility or complete a task I write it down. By the time for the review, you will have all of this information to show to your boss that you have done more than just an “individual contributor”. This works for me in getting promotions too.

Good luck!


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I ditto TwoBallCrane

 

[MikeHalloran]

Verbally offering my resignation is the only tactic that's ever really worked for me, in terms of getting a really big raise.

Funny thing is, I didn't have another job lined up, and hadn't been looking for one. I just got _really_ fed up with what was going on.

What was going on was, I got a new boss inserted between me and the old boss, to whom I had become accustomed. We _really_ didn't see eye to eye, on just about any subject.

I went into the old boss' office and said, "One of us has to go; I volunteer.". Then I started packing up my office.

Well, the new boss clearly got a stern talking to, and I got a bunch of money to stay, and I got along a little better with the new boss.

In the long run, it may not have been such a successful strategy. A year-ish later, the old boss was let go, and a little later, so was I.

On the other hand, I'm not sure you could draw any valid lesson from the experience by considering it in isolation; that company had beaucoup problems.


...
Maybe you can draw a lesson from that last. Most of the times when I've changed jobs voluntarily, the new outfit was more screwed up than the old one, just in a different way. The lesson you can draw from that? Don't take my advice.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[csd72]

Make your case backed up with facts and if it doesnt work then find an employer who will pay you that rate.

I have seen too many engineers sit in a position with poor raises who find themselves falling behind in salary. Loyalty aften doesnt pay these days.

 

[Hoagie]

let me get this straight...you want a $4/hr raise but have only worked there for a couple months? come on now, you have to give them a year. otherwise you're going to look like a real ass. why did you take the job in the first place?

 

[vpl]

if not i will tell them i will work til the end of the month. i hope they'd reconsider and know i'm serious about leaving.

Don't be surprised if they take you up on your offer of leaving. The fact that you've only been there a couple of months and have already been looking for a new job could well encourage them to cut their losses now rather than spend more money on you and have you still accept another job.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[cedarbluffranch]

I don't think your employer will respond well to a $4 an hour wage increase. That's something like $8000 a year and that's a pretty signficiant one for a guy who just started.

Your time to negotiate pay is before you start a job, not two months after they hired you.

 

[KENAT]

OK, in the OP they say 'few months'. How did that become 'a couple' implying 2 +- .5? Did I miss something.

The also say "since i'm up for a raise soon i figured that would be the best time to question my pay with my current employer"

Maybe I put 2 & 2 together and got 5 but I figured this meant they were probably at nearly 6 months which is when reviews and potentiaally raises are often given from my experience. That or near a year.

Asking for a raise at this point isn't necessarily unreasonable depending what was established at time of hire etc, though $4 may still be a big jump.

I would say don't necessarily wait for the review meeting to tell them you want a raise. Lay a little ground work first as they'll probably have to approve it with HR/Finance etc before they can give it to you. Do be prepared for a 'no' or '$4 are you serious?' etc. responses.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[TDew]

I love all the help this guy is getting here. You can tell who makes what decisions by the posts.

I personally say go for it. At $25 an hour that would be a 16% raise so that might be a little steep for someone cutting the bottom line. However if you make $35 an hr, $4 is only around 11%. I feel either one is not a whole lot to ask for when it comes to a review after an evaluation period. When inflation is +7% and you get 10% that is only a 3% raise. If you don’t get it oh well, just take what is given and go interview with the other company. Never mention what you can get else where during the review.

The only time to use what you were offered is when they ask why are you leaving or in stating you are thinking about leaving. I mean without an offer letter in hand you might get told it has been nice working with you.

Qualified engineers have to be seen as a commodity if you are not assume one of 2 things either you are not valued or you are not a qualified engineer. Unless we start not taking less than what we are worth we will always be under paid.

I had a professor that put it this way "Engineer’s ideas make all the money, everyone else just siphons off the profit."

Audentes fortuna juvat

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do, and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." --George S. Patton

 

[TDew]

Sorry about that the current inflation rait is just north of %5.5 so that would be a 5% raise if you got 10%.


Audentes fortuna juvat

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do, and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." --George S. Patton

 

[cedarbluffranch]

OK, I'm off work now so I have time to tell my story.

I graduated in 2003 when the job market was tought. I took an "engineering" position with a steel door manufacturer based in Phoenix, AZ. Money wasn't great (32k a year, which stinks for a ME graduate), but they offered "endless potential". Four months later I decided that I needed a raise, but couldn't talk my boss into one. I quit after six. (Not due to money, but due to job responsibilities). They did have a nice retirement and healthcare package.

After leaving the steel door company, I took a position as a "design engineer" with an aerospace company in the same area. Boss looked at my previous job, add 5k to my salary, and gave me $37k a year. No annual bonuses. Poor retirement and healthcare. I got a $2000 raise over the 30 months that I worked there, so I left with a salary of $39.5k a year or so in March of 2006. I also wanted a big fat raise at this company after two months - but no dice.

I, and my manager, made a big push to increase my salary, but the director of engineering declined.

I left there and started working at Boeing. While I won't reveal my current salary, suffice it to say that I really laugh when I look back at my first two jobs.

What I'm saying is there are other engineers out there that don't get paid squat, and unfortunately there are other companies that don't pay squat for engineers. The trouble is that when I was getting paid 32k a year, there was no way I could bring my salary up to 60k a year that I should have been getting paid. It wasn't going to happen any way that I could slice it. Sure, I might get a 6% raise instead of a 4$ raise but that wasn't going to help me out in the long term.

Anyways, that's my experience. My two last companies both paid me less than I wanted, and I pushed for raises at each of them in the first year with no dice. You can try-but you may end up at a different company (which may be a very positive thing anyway).

 

[KENAT]

It's a good point that many of the biggest pay raises come from change of employer.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[whyun]

Many companies don't disclose salaries when advertising for positions. They usually say DOQ, DOE, etc. Your qualification or experience means very little. They want to know what you are making now so they can offer you a bit more.

Some companies have known salary ranges for various levels of positions. Depending on your qualifications/interview, you may be offered a higher or lower range. At least you know before wasting too much of your time.

People have different reasons for switching firms. Money is the biggest. It makes no sense switching firms for a few dollars more an hour. Find a right time and make a few strategic moves that guarantee 20%+ in salary and you will be in good shape. At that point, even a 4% annual raise will seem decent.

 

[Twoballcane]

I concur that the only moving to other companies will get you the bigger raise. Even when you get promoted, the offers that I get are lager than the raise that come with the promotion. The three times I improved my career it was 25% and more.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."