GFCI Wiring

[wek]

A friend of mine is redoing his bathroom with a whirl pool tub/shower combonation. The Electrician said there are two ways to wire the pool and the rest of the bathroom.
1) Wire two circuits - one for the tub with a GFCI CB in the CB Panel along with a second GFCI CB in the panel for the rest of the room (this also will supply power for the exhaust ABOVE the tub, light and outlet).
2) Wire two circuits - one with a GFCI outlet at the tub and the other with a GFCI OUTLET in the bathroom feeding (protecting) the rest of the bathroom including the exhaust and light.
I thought the first option was better. I also questioned if a seperate ground wire should be run along with the EMT for extra protection.

Any info on NEC code requirements or violations is appreciated.

wek

 

[dpc]

As long as the feeder lengths from the panelboard to the tub are not too long, it probably doesn't make much difference. In the past, locating GFCI protection in a panelboard caused a lot of problems with nuisance tripping when feeder lengths were long. I think this problem has largely gone away.

Most of these whirlpools use 240V, so I think those have to use a GFCI breaker. If this one is 120V, then definitely should be on a separate circuit.

If it were in my house, I would insist on a copper equipment grounding conductor regardless of the conduit being used. NEC may allow use of EMT for grounding conductor, but you are much better off with a separate ground wire INSIDE the conduit.

 

[wek]

dpc, thanks for the info.
Now another problem has come up. The owner read the instalation info that came with the tub and it says that the GFCI should be tested before each use if not used more than once a week. The GFCI plug is by the motor and can only be accessed through the front tub access panel. Not too easy! If the GFCI is in the breaker panel, again, not too easy.
Can the plug for the motor be down line (controlled by) the GFCI plug next to the medicine cabinet? They would be the only two plugs on that line. The rest of the bathroom would still be protected from another line with a GFCI in the panel.

 

[dpc]

Electrically that works, and the NEC seems to allow it if I'm reading it correctly. The bathroom must have a 20A circuit dedicated to a bathroom outlet with no other outlets on the circuit (210.11) but there is an exception that allows outlets for other equipment in the same bathroom, if there is only bathroom receptacle. It's a little vague.

For the tub, see NEC 680 Part VII.

 

[wek]

dpc,
I talked to another Electrician about the problem and he said that he has used a device called a "Dead Front GFCI" (or FACELESS GFCI)mounted on a wall in the same room as the tub/pool combo. This is a great idea. It elminates the need to stand on your head to test or re-set the GFCI under the tub behind the access panel. It's made by Pass & Seymour (Cat No. 2081-1). It's the same size as a regular GFCI duplex outlet but without the plug slots. The outlet by the motor is connected to the LOAD side of the DEAD FRONT GFCI.

wek

 

[dpc]

Yes, that should work.

 

[peebee]

Re. using the existing GFI receptacle by the medicine cabinet: while it will probably work, note that the more loads you put on a GFI circuit, the greater the liklihood of nuisance tripping. Leakage currents can quickly add up to the 5mA threshold.

No matter where you put your GFI, in a steamy environment like a bathroom, separate GFI devices for each GFI'd load are a good idea simply to avoid nuisance tripping.

 

[wek]

GFCI the final wiring.

After much discussion the hydro tub motor is on its own circuit protected by a faceless GFCI mounted on the wall near the switches. The Fan/Light combo in the surround over the tub is on a second circuit and is protected by another faceless GFCI on the wall next to the other one. Also on the second circuit is a duplex GFCI outlet by the sink. The light over the sink is also on the second circuit and is not protected by a GFCI. The switch for this light is lighted so that if the fan/light combo over the tub trips the GFCi the person or persons in the tub could at least find and turn on the light over the sink.
Now we're all waiting for the inspector.

wek