Giving Notice of Leaving 3

[Beggar]

It appears that I'm about to accept a new position with another company. The new employer is on a very tight schedule and would like me to begin work as soon as possible.

That said, both myself and my future employer would like me to satisfy my professional obligation to my current employer. The question is, what is that obligation?

Is that obligation in any way diminished by the fact that my current employer does not provide severance pay or benefits when people are laid off?

I'll appreciate any guidance and I really want to handle this "the right way."

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Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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[IRstuff]

2 weeks is reasonably professional.

Given the policy of your company, it may not matter, they could just walk you out immediately after you give notice, so you might want to at least clear out your personal effects ASAP.

Personally, I'd like to give as much notice as feasible, since you never know if you might wind up working for them or some of the same people elsewhere in the future.

TTFN

 

[melone]

How long until you can wrap up the project you are currently working on?

 

[Beggar]

Melone, I think that just a few days would wrap up anything that's currently active. The problem is that new stuff pops up every day so they'd likely want to have me around until they could get another person in.

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Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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[IRstuff]

Ultimately, you need to look out for yourself; no one else will.

Balance that against how much they truly need you and how much goodwill you wish to leave behind.

The longest I've ever stayed was 4 weeks after a resignation.

TTFN

 

[JamesCG]

Doesn't your contract with current employer specify your minimum notice period? I'm from the UK and each employer I've worked for has had a notice clause in the contract - both from them to me and vice versa. Not sure if it is different in the US / Canada.

I've given 2 months before, but only because I was asked directly my Managing Director if I was planning on leaving the company on the same day that I had accepted my new job.

Cheers

James

 

[Boomerang]

Isn't it something like a quid pro quo?
If the employer is able to remove you at a moments notice, without repercussions, then you have an obligation to respond in kind. One thing you can do on this earth is educate without turning the other cheek.

 

[Boomerang]

I should add that I gave my last employer 6 monthds notice 14 years ago.

 

[profengmen]

I agree with IRstuff, two weeks is the professional way to go. I just want to add that those two weeks should not include a week of vacation.

You are a professional, act like one. Give your written notice and don't burn a bridge, always leave on good termes, even if they are not good.

 

[Beggar]

JamesCG: I'm an "at-will" employee. My contract specifically says that my employment may be terminated at any time for any reason, by either party, with no prior notice. Therefore, this is a professional ethics issue, not a legal one.

Boomerang: So is it your view then that given the "at-will" status and "no severance" nature of my employment that I should simply announce at the end of the day that I won't be returning?

IRstuff: I agree with that I must ultimately watch out for my best interests. I think that the moment I accept a new offer, my best interests are with pleasing the new employer. I'm more concerned with doing the right thing as defined the professional community than I am with leaving goodwill behind.

profengmen: What you say is what I've always believed myself. I've never before been faced with a situation where a new employer would significantly benefit from having me start immediately. I'm also not accustomed to working for companies with a "no-severance" policy. WRT the vacation thing, that would be very slimy, indeed.

At this point what I'm thinking is giving 2-weeks notice as follows: 1 standard 4-day week (I do 4x10's) followed by another 4 days in the next month scheduled to be mutually beneficial (it would really help to have some cross-over between me and a replacement). This was suggested by the new employer and seems like a decent compromise.

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Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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[buzzp]

A two week notice is standard. An employer should not expect any more notice than that. Granted projects generally can not be wrapped up in this amount of time. Before giving notice, I would gather personal items/files off your PC in case your employer has a bad reaction (and some will no matter what you do).

Try not to burn bridges. I learned this the hard way but at the same time felt some satisfaction in burning the bridge (saying things that had to be said in a professional manner). Some bridges are designed to fail so bridge collapse is eminent and there is nothing you can do.

The fact that the company does not provide severance pay, etc, should have no influence on your notice of resignation. Yes, they have no problem letting you go today with no notice but they are the ones with the control.

One word of advise, get a letter of recommendation before you leave the company. This may help later if your ex-employer decides you are an idiot for whatever reason (mad cause you quite, jealous, or maybe were an idiot- not saying you are just trying to illustrate). Most employers are not willing to bad mouth you to your face but will when someone calls for a reference. Yes, I had one bad experience but learned alot.

Good Luck!

 

[dporte17]

Beggar:

I just recently changed jobs, and went through a similar thing. The employer had the right to terminate me at any time. When asked when I could begin by my new firm, I told them 2 to 4 weeks, but if my past company reacted poorly, I might be available tomorrow.

In the end I figured out the best point (after a big launch phase) with my previous employer, and the firm I was going to understood and had more respect for me because I had the consideration to work with my previous employer to help them as much as possible. (and yes, they actually said that to me)

Now I may have been fortunate having an understanding new employer, but they initially wanted me as soon as possible as well. It never hurts to ask, and to explain why you would want to give your current employer every opportunity to work things out.

Dave
p.s. By the way, I agree with the previous posts of cleaning out your things. In this above case, I was prepared to grab my jacket and walk out the door when I gave notice!

 

[Boomerang]

Beggar
Actions speak louder than words and you are the only person that can evaluate on site and make that decision.
Despite the 'policy' of instant termination and no severance pay, is that what actually happens?
For example if your existing work environment fits the definition of an optomistic employee is someone who brings their lunch to work (they figure they'll be around long enough to eat) it might be real risky giving two weeks notice.
Square it with your new employer that despite the risk of instant dismissal (do you know your existing employers agenda?)you personally feel comfortable giving two weeks notice.

 

[dozer]

Beggar said:
"The problem is that new stuff pops up every day so they'd likely want to have me around until they could get another person in."

If the situation were reversed and they were not happy with your work and wanted to let you go, would they keep you around until you found a new job? I doubt it. While I agree that you should behave professionally and you shouldn't burn bridges behind you, don't make their problem your problem. You've got enough to worry about with switching jobs. Two weeks notice is reasonable.

 

[rmw]

If you give them the std. two weeks notice, and they keep giving you new things to do, it is their problem. Give them the notice, and plan to work the two weeks if they require it.

I am partial to the HP 55, not saying that it is better than the HP 15. Now, the argument of Post vs K&E paled compared to the debate about RPN vs whatever the other system was called when the calculators replaced slide rules.

My first pocket calculator wouldn't fit in any of my pockets, and took a months salary to pay for it.

rmw

 

[RDK]

Quite often the question of how much notice will you give your current employer before you come to work for us is a subtle way of asking how much notice will you give us when you find another job.

If you think of it that way then the answer is to give the customary two full weeks (or other local/industry custom) and ask if they would give you permission to take calls from your current employer, maybe pop in for a few hours or other assistance to your current employer to give your current employer a reasonable transition from your services to those of another employee.

Another related issue is to always have your current activities well enough documented so that if you were suddenly unable to work due to sickness or accident that someone could step in and take over your duties. If you are in that position then handing over the vast majority of your duties within two weeks should not pose too much of a hardship, especially if you are available for phone support.

Be professional when leaving (and in every other action) to do otherwise can only hurt you.

I personally would not want to work for someone who insisted that I quit immediately and start without turning my current job over to someone else. They do not respect professionalism and will not respect your professionalism.


PS still use my HP-15 daily, best calculator I've ever had in terms of power and usability. Not as powerful as my laptop but better battery life.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[jmw]

The thing to remember is that contract conditions often reflect the uncertainties of life when they hired you i.e. is this guy going to be any good or not?

If you work for them for any period of time, then unless they had a review point or a good HR department, the chances are no-one ever did this treview, except so far as salary and any general changes that affect all employees, and they do not reflect your current working and professional relationship.

This means that when you come to leave, unless there are exceptional reasons for wanting to stick to the exact legal constraints of the contract, you need to reflect on your current position and value to them.

In that regard, what you suggest seems very reasonable; just have your proposal ready for when you actually resign and be prepared to be reasonable. This will put you in the strongest position. Unless, of course, your bosses are morons or likely to through temper tantrums, which you don't indicate.

As the others say, planning is about making sure that the stuff you need to take with you is already in your control... don't wait for when security dump you and a cardboard box out in the rain.

Incidentally, I'm not sure what you mean by "WRT the vacation thing, that would be very slimy, indeed."

If you've earned vacation i.e. so many days entitlement for so many days worked, then that is yours. If you leave wit two weeks holiday due, then that is your time and they need to pay you for it. This could mean you working two weeks notice and collecting 4 weeks pay. If you mean, give two weeks notice and then take it as holiday, I agree with you.

Lastly, and it comes up very often in these threads, remember that all contracts are negotiable.
What the employer offers is his standard terms and conditions. Unless you think about the terms, they won't.

If you don't like it, negotiate. The times to negotiate are:
[ul square][li]when first employed[/li]
[li]when your job changes[/li]
[li]when seniority changes[/li][/ul]
Trying to re-negotiate notie periods at anyother time will cause management suspicions and may result in them assuming you are about to leave and taking pre-emptive action.

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[profengmen]

I use a casio fx-300w and a real old Casio-fx-451.. I love the old 451.

 

[SB63]

I gave two weeks notice for state DOT and they kept piling the work on me. My last day they went into a panic and tried to exit interview me and do HR stuff. At 5 PM I walked out. I agree with the above post that said you should not let their problem be your problem.

 

[pmkPE]

What does your current employer's employee policy handbook state?

Today I just resigned from a firm that I was employed by for more than 16 years. Times have been tough for various reasons and a few weeks ago the president told me that he was unable to make payroll for the next payday. I stated that I could not continue without a steady paycheck as I have family responsibilties and no savings. This conversation took place August 11th. A contact that I have notified me of a group that was hiring immediately, one in which I worked with before taking the position that I just resigned from. I have not received pay from my now former employer since August 6th. I had no intention of leaving abruptly but I must provide for my family. When I submitted my resignation today he expected me to stay for an additional two weeks to start up a project that was about to be awarded to the firm. My response was that I had not received a pay check for work that I have already completed and that I had not received a paycheck in the last four weeks. He did agree with me. I have offered to help out as best I can on my free time at nights and to help them get the project going and my former employer has said that he will pay me (when he is able).

The point of all of this is that upon receipt of a letter of resignation some employers will want the employee to leave immediately - so one thing to do before submitting your resignation is to gather your important things before handing in the resignation. Others will allow you to stay for the amount of time that is customary which in my former firm was two weeks as outlined in their employee policy handbook. It is also the standard time for which most professional firms give notice of termination.

The firm that is hiring you sounds professional and will accept a delay of two weeks before you are able to start. That is as it should be - (I would be hesitant to go to an new firm that insisted that I drop my current employer without proper and adequate notification). Your new employer will still be in business two weeks from now and they will respect your professionalism for giving your previous employer adequate notification. And if your current employer tells you to leave sooner, than your new employer will be just as happy to have you start with the understanding that you did give your current employer the opportunity to allow you to finish off with the customary two weeks. Again check your current employers employee policy handbook for what their undersatnding is of adequate notification.

Also, the way in that I handled my resignation did not burn bridges; they have said that they do not want me to go and that if things improve they would hope that I might reconsider and return. Who knows what time will bring. I resigned in a way I think was professional and fortunately I am still on very good terms with my previous employer. They could have just as easily said that I shoul take a long hike on a short pier; they are resonable and understand my responsibilities as I understand their difficult situation. Life goes on......