Grader operation - difficult to learn?

[mamagrrl]

I have a quarter mile of very rural road, privately owned, that is currently mostly muck and ruts with a little washboard thrown in for fun. Can we say, Stuck Truck? The durn thing needs grading and soon. We don't have to worry about permits on this particular project, and the only users will be my family.

I've read some of the posts on list and figure I need to use a grader (NOT a backhoe) to smooth/dome the road, improve the roadside ditches (and install a few culverts by hand.) The road is not rocked yet.

Question is, how difficult is it to figure out how to manipulate a grader? I've used smaller heavy machinery with great success, but the size of a grader is a little intimidating.

Any helpful hints on what kind/size of a grader to rent, tips on operation, etc.? (or, am I completely insane to consider doing this myself?)
Mamagrrl

 

[gtrainor]

Graders are difficult to run. There are a lot of adjustments to make and even when you think you've got them figured out, doing a correct job is the next step. Grader operators are highly revered since their work has to be very accurate. Without spending a bunch of money, place an ad in the local paper looking for a operator to grade your road and teach how to run a grader. There are tons of retired operators out there that would do this just for the fun of getting back in a rig.

 

[PEinc]

For only a quarter of a mile, you may want to try a small to medium sized bull dozer with a tilt/angle adjustable blade. It won't do as nice a job as a grader with a good operator, but it will be a cheaper rental, easier to run, and you will have more fun.

 

[KRSServices]

Check out my website, I have the perfect piece of equipment for you. Why would you try to buy and operate that piece of equipment when there are likely many available for hire in your area? A 1/4 mile of road is not much and a qualified operator can grade and do the shoulder pulls very quickly. If you time it right, he can finish by crowning and spreading the gravel. For the time it would take to learn, I suggest hiring someone. If you are still intent on operating the things you will need to know (in order to maintain the road)how to grade, establish a uniform crown, maintain a crown, shoulder pulls (without pulling organics onto the road, set the blade correctly and angling. You will have to also learn how to shift them and keep the RPM's sufficient such that fuel is not wasted or the engine is over reved or lugged. KRS Services

http://www.krs-services.com

 

[mamagrrl]

I'd love to put in an ad for a retired grader, but this land is out in the middle of boo-foo egypt and the only person the grapevine has as a 'grader', retired or otherwise, is the one person who is bidding for the job - at $70 an hour... and he works slowly... and I'm not impressed by his work on other sites. I don't want to be held to that... I also don't want to piss him off in case I need him in the future (he owns the only 4x4 backhoe in the neighborhood.)

At the moment, we're considering dragging an extremely heavy bit of wood horizontally behind the truck to try to level out some of the more egregious ruts before spring, so ANYTHING would be an improvement over that!

Do you think a dozer would be able to crown a road? I'd have thought they could only handle doing a 'flat' road. I'm a genius with a bobcat, so using one of those (instead of a full-fledged dozer) would be easy. I just didn't think crowning/pitching the road would be as easily done with anything but a grader.

I love KRSServices truck-invention. One of those and I'd be set. Do those get rented out in the middle-of-nowhere california? (and I wouldn't buy a grader, I'd rent one, even if it meant going through a contractor buddy to do it.)

 

[PEinc]

In my opinion, the dozer is still the way to go for a job as small as yours. A dozer is probably the cheapest and most avaiulable piece of equipment suitable for grading 1/4 mile of rural road. Dozers are used for grading all the time. Crowning just means you have to grade each side of the road separately so that the crown forms. Graders are for larger jobs and cost more. The truck/dozer sounds nice but may not be available or economical. I don't think I'd want to grade dirt or gravel with a truck - plow snow maybe, but not heavier material.

 

[KRSServices]

PEinc,

Regarding grading with a truck, with a 12' grader blade mounted under the chassis, in an identical fashion as a conventional motor grader and the fact that the backweight is heavier than a grader when 3/4 loaded my unit performs better for general work than a conventional grader. Snow plowing is a bonus! But you are quite correct regarding the cost however. It is designed to maintain miles of rural road, and a 1/4 mile in itself would not really be too cost effective.

For crowning and shaping, a dozer will not cut it. I would still hire a local grader on an as-needed basis. KRS Services

http://www.krs-services.com

 

[mfaris]

The fact is, if you know what you're doing, a grader, a dozer, or even a blade behind a farm tractor with a 3 point hitch will do. The farm tractor may be easier for you. You can tilt the blade with the turn of a screw. My dad can use any of these, but he's being doing this for 65 years. The toughest part to learn is the speed.

Having someone who knows how to operate the machine (whichever one you can get your hands on) will give you a much better product, and one that's easier to maintain.

Also, $70 an hour isn't a bad rate.

From a CE (PE) with many years running a CAT D6C and a 955L (mid-size dozer and loader, respectively)

 

[Rex48]

Regarding your intention of renting a blade (grader to most of you) sans operator (bare), I don't mean to sound overly discouraging but you must understand that a blade is a highly specialized piece of equipment.It requires more skill than any other and takes many hours of instruction and practice to operate with any kind of satisfactory results. This machine is run mainly "by the seat of your pants" and a compentent operator must have a good eye for grade,depth,and slope, and must have coordination enough to be able to pay attention to what both ends of moldboard are doing - at the same time. This is no machine for novice operators and your skidsteer prowess will be of absolutely no benefit.Trust me, to do any sort of passable work with a blade will take more time and practice than you'll be able to get on a quarter mile stretch of dirt road. Your best bet is to hire that fella with his machine for the seventy dollars an hour. Without seeing your property I can't really say for sure, but this job shouldn't take but about 4-6 hours to scarifie and grade. Of course this would depend on conditions(depth of ruts,soil type,amount of mud,drainage,etc)Also,seventy dollars is an extremely inexpensive rate for a blade w/operator unless he owns junk(I get 85 for my little 420-D) so even if the guy does take a few hours longer, you're still way ahead moneywise.You have indicated that your road is in particularly poor shape with ruts deep enough to get your truck stuck in. If this is indeed the case, scarifieing previous to blading is in order.
A word about scarifieing,compaction,and subdrainage. Unless you like the idea of doing this project every few years and can afford to replace all that expensive aggregate, you'll take the time to scarifie and compact this road. A scrarifier attachment is simply a row of 7-9 stiff teeth on a bar which is fastenened either underneath or on the rear of the machine,raised and lowered hydraulicaly. When forced into the ground it "rips up" the soil, breaking up the hard spots and mixing the mud in with the firmer material. What you'll wind up with is a uniformly dense, easily bladed surface which can be either wheel or steel rolled to promote proper sealing and subdrainage.Only after these operations are completed should any aggregate surfacing be applied. I'd recomend a 4" layer of 1 1/2" and minus crushed rock compacted and overlaid with a 2" layer of 3/4" crushed rock. If this is properly graded,compacted,and drained, you should have a good looking lane that will perform for years and years. As far as hand work, with a good blademan in the seat there shouldn't be much if any.

 

[mamagrrl]

Well, the experts have spoken, haven't they... Okay, so it's most likely the best idea to have the road-guy put in the road right the first time (and maybe then maintain it myself with a little dozer or tractor.) I really *do* want to make this 4x4 monstrosity of a road 4-season-passable. (we won't have to deal with snow, just lots and lots of rain.)

The road is indeed Very rutted, badly sloped, and mucky (culverts will be needed). From what I'm hearing here, he'll need to install the culverts, dig out the scarify the base road, grade it, wheel/steel roll it and then layer it first with a 4" layer of 1 1/2", roll the 4" layer, then lay a 2" layer of 3/4" crushed rock.

From what I'm hearing,(if I keep an eye on him to keep his slopes good and work consistent,) the road guy won't be so terribly expensive. It seems like the 6" of rock will be the pocket breaker!

Out here, it's about $350 for a load of rock from the quarry. The load reportedly covers 50-70 feet of road. Is that fairly normal or a little high/low? (I'm going out on a limb and considering having the road guy do the dirt, and have us do the rock laying/spreading and compaction of the rock (with a wacker/jumping jack or roller) Am I insane again? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and have him do the whole thing from start to finish.)

Thanks a lot for the opinions on roads and grading. I'm great with biological processes, but this road is a first for me.

 

[KRSServices]

mamagrrl,

I have faced this type of issue countless times in the past in dealing with my rural customers. Your description of this 1/4 of "road" may be better served if it was downgraded to an access or driveway. Your desire to have an all weather, non-4x4 road may come at a bit of a cost. Without viewing the area, but assuming a clay/sand/silt combination, all that may be required is constructing a grade (0.5 to 0.75 m). Here in Rural Alberta, I build roads of your description for the oilpatch, forestry and rural residents, using materials available. They understand though, that depending on the maaterial, under heavy loading or during wet periods, the road will rut and in some cases, the grade lost. There are remedies for those problems, but it will be up to you as to what you need. A 1/4 mile of road will not be costly and there are many options in keeping the costs down while providing the desired outcome. Email me some more info, including a photo of the site and soils and I can assist in providing some cost effective solutions. KRS Services

http://www.krs-services.com