Graduate School 2

[SKIAK]

Realizing that graduate school is becoming more and more important, towards the industry standard, does anybody have advice to know when is the appropiate time to go?

I'm just finishing my first year after my bachelors. I've heard that it is helpful to gain some experience before heading for a masters. I don't want to try to work and go to school, but I feel the longer I wait the less likely I am to quit and go for it.

Realizing everybody and every situation is different, I'm just wondering how many engineers in practice (preferably structural, but any advice is appreciated) have their masters? When did you get it? Any suggestions?

 

[KENAT]

What type of Masters?

MBA, MS, MPhil, MEng...

My BEng is in Aerspace Systems Engineering, I don't have a Masters. I was looking into it but now am not so sure.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[bvanhiel]

Depends on whether you choose to go MBA or MS.

I did my MS straight out of school. It gave me better job choices. It also keeps you from forgetting all the technical knowledge you gained in school. Would you gain more if you already had some experience? Sure, but the odds of you getting back to school full time diminish greatly once you've tasted a paycheck.

MBA programs usually want you to experience the real world before you apply. I would aim for a top 5 biz school if you can get in, the price difference seems to more than pay itself off.

-b

 

[Lion06]

I started grad school with 1.5 years of experience. I have no intentions of quitting to go full time (I have a family to support). Additionally, I'm not sure I see the benefit in not working and going full time - especially if you already have some experience. The only real benefit is that you can get done in 1 year instead of 3 or 4. I was out of high school for 6 years before starting undergrad and out of college for 1.5 years before starting MS. I haven't missed a step (am far ahead of the 22-23 year old kids taking BS/MS together).
I am one of very, very few at my office that doesn't have a MS. Most of the others that don't graduated from a 5-year AE program (certainly the equivalent of MS - though not recognized as such).

 

[bvanhiel]

The only real benefit is that you can get done in 1 year instead of 3 or 4

That indeed would be the primary benefit. Another is that you get a better job coming out of school. Thirdly, another year of school is another year of maturity. I know I benefitted from it, and you seem to have as well in that you're 'way ahead' of your BS/MS coworkers.

-b

 

[SKIAK]

I'm looking at getting an MS. I don't have any tiedowns at the moment (ie family) so I feel the sooner the better. I've been taking one graduate night class a semester to try and keep my technical knowledge sharp. I don't want to spend a long time getting a masters which is why I would prefer to quit my job and go full time in school.

What is the difference in work available to somebody with an MS to a BS?

 

[SKIAK]

or maybe a BS +N number of years experience?

 

[KENAT]

Regarding advantage of/work for MS over just BS, pretty sure similar was discussed fairly recently, take a look through this forum (or maybe it was forum730 or even forum732).

As I recal youll find a lot of guys with just BS doubt the need for MS in many areas. Likewise one might suspect that some MS guys overplay their significance. However, my memory isn't what it was.



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[bvanhiel]

If you like your job I wouldn't quit.

I think an MS is a great way to put yourself on the path of your choosing. Most BSME jobs that were avialable to me at graduation were more manufacturing related. I wanted product development. I decided to stay in school and do an MS with a focus on design. I was able to pick up some internships in that area, and poof... my resume looked like a product developer rather than a generic BSME grad. I had much different job choices after the MSME.

If you've already got a job in the area you want, then I don't think an MS will do as much for you. It depends more on how your industy views it as to whether it's worth the effort. I think bigger, sexier, industries (automotive, aerospace, etc) tend to value it more, as there are so many talented people trying to distinguish themselves for a few promotions.

-b

 

[GregLocock]

No, automotive does not value a MSc/MEng very highly, at least in Australia or the UK.

I don't think a masters does you much harm (in terms of short term prospects/pay), and it should be beneficial in the long term IF you stay in the technical stream. But if you go into manufacturing or management then it would have limited utility.

On the other hand a PhD has direct short term implicastions if you are looking at total financial recompense over the first few years after your BSc. I don't believe you can make up the difference in pay in that timeframe. Every year you stay at uni is another year that the rest of us are getting paid, promoted, and gaining experience, and like it or lump it, when you come into industry with no industrial experience you will not be taken very seriously by most people for a couple of years, and will be paid accordingly. The exception I suggest would be if you are working on an industry project directly with your employer during your PhD.








Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[gwynn]

The wide range of topics covered in the undergrad program has led a number of Canadian structural firms to only accept candidates with experience or an M. Eng. at minimum. Many of these prefer the M. Eng over the MASc. Typical low rise construction is probably the limit for a Bachelor's.

That said, since you're already employed this isn't as big a concern. It may increase your pay, I would think this more likely when changing jobs though. The other reason people I know have gone back for a grad degree is that they have then been given more interesting problems to work on. But again, if you are happy with your current work this isn't much of an incentive.

I've never heard the comment about getting experience before a master's from anyone actually practising.

 

[IRstuff]

Just BS, more of the same (MS), piled higher and deeper (PhD). Actually, only a BS-late 70s. No obvious indication that not having an MS hurt.

If anything, it probably would have hindered. I do almost nothing related to what I thought I was going to be doing when I graduated. That's probably the strongest reason for not getting an MS, just simply that sh*t happens, and what you might have studied won't be of practical use to you later, or, it'll pidgeonhole you into a different career path altogether.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Ataloss]

I'm 32 and am going back to school full time in the fall to get my MS. Do I wish I had done this many years ago? Yes. Do I wish I had done it straight out of university? No. While getting my BS, even with a lot of co-op experience (my school alternated 3 months classroom then 3 months work through all of university) I didn't fully appreciate how important certain concepts I was learning would be and how useful a lot of the things I was being taught would be. Over the course of my first few years of working, so many things that were just abstract concepts during my undergrad education really 'clicked' and I came to not only understand the concepts a lot better (when to use a certain formula and why), but also how to tie together subjects that were completely separate in university. If I had gone straight into a MS without working I'm not sure I'd have gotten as much out of it without the practical experience I gained in the first few years of working as I'm hoping to get out of it now. My big worry about going back after working for a while is remembering calculus. I've been going through all my undergrad calc notes relearning it all, and I'm shocked at how much I've forgotten (laplace transform? yeah, um, can't the intern right a matlab program to solve this for me?). I'm confident I'll be ready in September, but spending my summer teaching myself multi-variate calculus again doesn't sound very exciting. A lot of the other subjects, like mechanics of solids, thermodynamics, etc I have used often enough to be able to retain a lot of what I learned. If I were getting a MS in Engineering, the 'engineering' subjects would not be a concern, just the math behind them.

As to why I'm going full time instead of part time? My situation is kind of unique. The program I'm taking (MS in Radiological Physics) is only offered at a handful of univeristies in North America, one of which happens to be in Detroit, about a 20 minute drive for me (40 minutes if the border is backed up). Because I'm Canadian and still living in Canada (commute to work in the US every day) I can't legally work and go to school in the US at the same time, as that would require two visas and the Border Guard I talked to about this said I can't have two visa's at once. So I'm forced to either quit my job and go full time, keep my job and take a different program part time at the University of Windsor, or move to another city in Canada where it's offered and try to find a job and go part time. Also, I just want to get it finished, so going full time would have been my choice regardless of Visa issues.

Bob

 

[SKIAK]

I agree that I feel like working after my bachelors helped me to tie everything together instead of going straight for my MS. Its funny how some things just click, "oh, is that what they were talking about?"

I'm starting to realize that this probably won't effect me as much as I thought, but considering ASCE's new Policy 465 of 30 additional credits after your bachelors before you can sit for the PE. I understand that this is reqired to be implemented by the state you are obtaining your license from before it is required; I guess I felt like it was becoming almost a requirement to get a masters. But I realize by that time I'll have a lot of experience so it shouldn't effect me much.

 

[rtmote]

I went for my masters after two years' work experience. I was falling asleep as a structural graduate engineer, feeling trapped, in the Nuclear business so I hopped it.

Having the experience ensured I had the desire to do well on my MSc because I certainly wasn't going back to my previous life! As a structural engineer, a masters is powerful and useful, if you are looking for project management roles or dipping the toe in research potentials. Takes a little longer to put it into play in the mainstream engineering.

The advantage of the masters programme is that it should be current, cover all the thinking of the industry, the future, the latest information on everything. You will learn so much more than the narrow BEng. What I learned in one year, blew my head off and stayed with me for a long time. The pressure of the studies and learning to deal with the vast array of information that just kept coming was a whole new ball game. You find you will sink or swim and that is great knowledge in itself.

Robert Mote

http://www.motagg.com

 

[abusementpark]

I am currently working part-time as an EIT (about 25 hours/week) while taking 3 graduate classes a semester. I would recommend going at this pace, if your employer let's you. You would most likely have to lose benefits, but you will be able finish pretty quickly.

For structural, it is definitely better have some work experience under your belt. It gives you a good context to view the material being presented. I have a few graduate classmates who have never set foot in an engineering office, and they have no idea what are practical design questions to be asking about material presented in class.

Good Luck!!

 

[rtmote]

I recommend going full-time, the focus and pace is exhilarating and the job market is very positive.

However, reality can be different. If you have a choice, get two years minimum work experience, look learn and then go into MSc with nothing on your plate. You will learn a whole new level of attitude, knowledge and confidence.

I do recommend it for the enquiring mind.

Robert Mote

http://www.motagg.com