Graduate with option to work for "start-up" or "big international 1

[indy1687]

Hi,

I am a new Mechanical Engineering graduate. I have qualified with a 2.1 and have been given two job offers.

The first is for a big international company. They have a three year graduate program which would give me experience in all their business units, there is opportunity for travel and the wage is excellent if not one of the best offered to graduates in my country.

The second is for a relatively small high-tech engineering company. It is bring a new product to the market. Hence it is transforming from an R&D company to an R&D and manufacturing company. The owners are great and I feel it would be a pleasure to work for them. The role they offer has a great deal of responsibility and is quite varied.

I want to get as much experience in engineering and management as I can in the next few years and attain the rank of a professional engineer. I see myself in a few years at attempting a start-up company.

My problem is this: Which option is best? Which option would benefit me more after a couple of years?

Regards

 

[IRstuff]

Unfortunately, the answer is probably "both." However, since your second choice sounds more like what you want to do in the long run, that's the better choice. Learning all you from a start-up will prevent you from at least failing the same way. There are a million ways to fail, but only a few ways to succeed.

In a larger company, how things are run is less obvious, and whether things are run correctly is equally unobvious, at least in the short term.

I think the start-up will give you way more experience and insight than the same amount of calendar time in a bigger company.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[TPL]

You can move from a large company at any time to a small one - the reverse is not always true.

However, your ability to enjoy travel with your job diminishes as you acquire responsiblities (SO, kids, house, dog etc) and the fact that you have been on a 3 year graduate training program will set your CV apart.

There is a lot of risk with the small company - what if bringing the new product to market doesn't succeed?

I think it comes down to a choice of high risk (and possibliy high rewards) with the small company or guaranteed high rewards and career stability with the large company - in the present economic climate....

 

[moltenmetal]

If your heart is in it, and it seems that way to me, you should DEFINITELY go for the start-up! You could be in on the ground floor of what later becomes a thriving business- an enviable place to be!

Later in life, you'll become more risk-averse as your responsibilities mount- you'll be even less likely to go for it later. Take the "safe" appointment with the big firm and you'll very likely be working in big firms most of your life.

At the start-up you will be thrown into the deep end from the start, rather than being slowly indoctrinated into a way of doing things that others have figured out for you beforehand. Early responsibility is VERY formative to your career.

Even if it goes south you'll develop a variety of skills which will give several things to put on a resume with which to entice future employers.

 

[cksh]

I might go with the larger company but it would depend on the environment. If in doubt I would. If the start-up has a good core group you might consider it.

With the larger company there is a great opportunity to learn from others, have a more stable career, learn the foundations to bring something to the market etc by procedures already in place. Not that they do it the most efficient way but it is nice to have something to start with.

Not that you can't do all that with a start-up. But if the start-up is full of a bunch of marketing experts with no real engineering background, or manufacturing experience you are gonna have to learn real quick. You might have to wear multiple hats, shoot from the hip and cross your fingers on the projects.

I have not worked for a start-up but have dealt with enough to get a feel for what it is like.

You won't be bored at a start-up though thats for sure. For comparison, ignore the fact that it is a start-up and focus on the product, employees, and your future value.

 

[TheTick]

No matter where you end up later, it's good to learn how the big dogs run. One way or another, you will be working for them, either as an employee or as a vendor.

 

[MechEng2005]

I think the most important thing is your ability to learn at your first job. How do the companies compare as far as availability of mentors and other helpful engineers?

Also, if you are planning on getting your PE license, it might pay to see how closely you'd be working with others that already have a PE. I believe most states require references from PEs that you have worked with. It's also important how closely you work with them, for both being able to provide a good reference and mentoring. Perhaps the big company has a number of PEs that you'd be separated from by 3 levels of management, where as the small company might have only 1 PE that you work very closely with.

-- MechEng2005

 

[csd72]

The big international will be the safer bet I imagine, startups have a fairly low success rate.

 

[ajack1]

I think it depends mostly on your personality.

I pretty much agree with what has been said above, larger companies tend to be more structured and stable, but the down side is it seems everyone spends more time covering their own backsides and waiting for everything to be signed off that the pace can be very slow.

Start ups tend to be fly by the seat of your pants and get the job done, someone will always make a decision fast, be it right or wrong.

It really depends if you like a comfort zone or being constantly challenged.

 

[indy1687]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I am turning towards the start-up as the product is great. They are already expanding. They hope to double their work force in the next six months or so.

The big international company offers, probabily a better wage, more travel and stability, but the work will probabily be mundane.

I think this is the way to go. Any other advice?

 

[demayeng]

It sounds like you are a go-getter and will be an above average engineer so I would go for the start-up where you will have a chance to excel. I think you would be able to join the bigger company at a later date if you wanted.

However in saying that, I spent my first 7 years in a start-up R&D company on an exciting project that was receiving a lot of attention and funding, however I felt overwhelmed a lot of the time. I think I would have benefited from some prior real world engineering experience. The mentoring was limited as everyone was busy and I would have been able to bring more to the table with more experience.

 

[hokie66]

The mentoring thing would be a key for me. If the small company has at least one senior engineer you can learn from, go for it. But if you are "it", this could be a bad experience.

 

[stanweld]

Go where your heart is. There is no job security with either. Job security will have to be earned.

Research both, however. Mentoring is crucial to your development as an engineer. Funding is crucial to the R&D firm's ability to continue to develop and exist.

 

[GregLocock]

I'll just put my Dr Evil hat on. Isn't mentoring one of the most important parts of a young engineer's progress? In which org is he likely to be mentored effectively?

I'd add that I have only ever worked for one org that regarded mentoring as a given, they are long gone bust.





Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[stanweld]

One other item to research about the R&D firm; are the owners looking to sell? I've known a number of individuals who took excellent jobs with such firms only to have the firm sold off to another company shortly after they were hired. Redundancy was quickly established after the sale.

 

[Neubaten]

I've changed from the "start up" type to the (relatively) "big shot" type, where I am nowadays, after a year and a half.

At the "start-up" it was really nice to have all the control, no matter how young and inexperienced you are because what you find and develop is yours, and everybody is going to look for you for answers, and you'll have the direct contact with all the aspects of the product (customer, suppliers, labs, etc...)

What burned me and moved me to change company was bad management. If you are not going to have this problem, then for me, start ups at this point are great, if you are the "I need challenges" type.

The big company, I soon discovered, is a soul-crusher, where you are just a small part of a machinery that sometimes seems bizarre and disoriented. Doing even the smallest task is tedious and painful because of bureaucracy and procedures. You don't do the whole thing, just your part, and even that part is going to be presented and availed by some other part of the machine.

Sure, you get to know a lot of things and see bigger things done, but the general lack of excitement, and your lesser involvement with the outcome, makes it all pass without touching you. I feel I gained more eng skills when I was at the small corp. Now I have gained seriousness and methodology, and I have had implanted a profound respect for normative and specifications. Which I hate.

My only hope to keep going is that experience in a big company would give some brightness to my resume.

Keep in mind that what I expressed here is a very personal opinion, based in circumstancial facts, and probably most of the people would have another view of the trouble-free, full of big-named things, structured world of the great corporations.

I also now remember how I was so impressed and excited to get to work into a big company. Oh, the innocence!

 

[WhiteyWhitey]

I had a similar decision some time ago.

I was working for a larger utility for about 5 years in their scholarship & graduate program. I found that the big organisation felt a little limiting. The scope of my work was quite small and it takes a lot of time and experience to get involved in some of things I joined the company for.

The smaller company doesnt have as many mentors, has some management and organisation issues but my job is brilliant. I am learning a lot by experience and have control over a much larger scope of work.

The new smaller company is a challenge every day and can be stressful if you take it the wrong way but its my choice so far.

I plan to stay here and see how the next project goes (Im determined to do the next one better) and then potentially contract myself out if I need to to find work.

Job security is less of an issue in Aus in the power industry than it seems to be in US with smaller electronics firms which may colour my judgment.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Jefka]

As Neubaten said, at smaller companies you're often given greater responsibilities than at larger ones. Subsequently you work on a wider range of tasks both engineering and non-engineering. For example, a large engineering firm may have a specialized PSV department and a entry-level process engineer may never develop PSV experience as a result. The trade-off is that larger companies have better resources for training and reference. In my opinion it comes down to the quality of older engineers working at the company in question. If there's a lot of skilled elders at a smaller company to learn from, then a small company is the way to go. Without skilled elders, then a person may (at times) find him/herself overwhelemed by difficult tasks with no reliable assistance from one's coworkers.

You've probably already made your decision on which job to go with, but it's a good thing to keep in mind for future positions. I feel overall I'm a better engineer having worked at small companies the past 5 years.

 

[PLCMentor]

Well you have a lot of good advice here. The main thing to look for is which company apeals to you. There is nothing worse than a boring job that you just have to go to. You seem very intrigued by the start up and it would probably be a great opportunity; however, make sure you listen to the advice on mentoring. You need to have someone to give you that real world training.

Always follow the heart where your job is concerned. There are a lot of well off but miserable people out there that are stuck in the job they have because of a choice a long time ago. You spend a large part of your life working. It would be a shame to not do something you enjoy.

Russell

Russell White, P.E.
Automation Technologies, Inc.

http://www.AutomationNC.com

Automation Help

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