Graduating soon but with poor GPA... 8

[ShiftF4]

Hi,

I want to get some honest opinions about my chances in getting a decent job with a sub 3.0 GPA. I'm having a great deal of difficulty finishing my last 400 level courses. Although I did great in my 200 level courses, I'm having difficulty grasping the higher-level concepts and am scraping by with a string of C's. 300 Level courses were B's. When I graduate, I expect to have an overall GPA of about 2.7-2.8. Part of the reason why my GPA is so low is that I haven't done very well in my non-engineering courses either.

All that being said, during my two internships I was noted as being a very hard worker and learned quickly on the job (processes, use of software, but not technical material).

I'm hoping to get some ideas/strategies on how to improve my job outlook. Thanks for any help!!!

 

[mshimko]

Unfortunately, when companies and hiring managers review resumes of near or recent college grads, the GPA is often the only thing they look at.

You do have a harder road ahead than one with a 3.5 - that's just a fact (BTW - my GPA years ago was 2.8; my daughter's GPA 2 years ago was also 2.8, so I know whee you're coming from).

That your GPA is declining rather than improving may add to you difficulty, but only with those few folks who actually look into details (the majority will never see beyong the GPA).

How do you interview? In simple terms, the only purpose of your resume is to get you an interview, and that's where YOU have a chance to impress the prospective companies.

In the long run, my only advice is:
a) keep trying, eventually you'll land your first real job,
b) excell at your first real job, and 24 months later no one will give a hoot about your GPA.

 

[livingston]

Keep your attitude positive. A lot of engineering managers realize that the C student is the best of both worlds. I say that because they tend to be accustomed to working harder for what they want than the A student and are more capable of learning than the D student. They also don't have that annoying superiority complex of the A graduate.;-)
These are things that I have heard from actual engineering managers. Blitz the resume and don't give up.

 

[PSE]

Decide if engineering is something you want to do. Be honest with yourself and if the answer is yes, decide what "part" of electrical you enjoyed the most and try to find opportunities that will get you there. Think about the type of work done as an intern, talk to people you worked with there. They are likely first choices for permanent positions as they already have had a chance to see how you fit within the company. If they are not willing to hire you find out why. Use the feedback to improve your chances of attaining a position somewhere else. Do not dwell on having only an "average" GPA. If you decide engineering is not for you, be assured that the background you possess is a good foundation for most anything.

Your resume should reflect that you have received your degree. I would not put GPA information on it rather leaving that up to an interviewer to ask. Be prepared to answer honestly. You note that picking up on technical material was not indicated as one of your internship strengths. If you try for positions in larger corporations, you may have the opportunity to be mentored. Smaller firms rely on you to get up to speed quickly.

Good luck and regards,

 

[proletariat]

After your first job, your GPA won't mean anything. However, to land your first job you might hang around an extra semester and take high-credit softball courses like algebra, or geology (rocks for jocks in my school).

 

[TheBlacksmith]

As above; focus on your positive attributes and put your best foot forward. Do you not understand the concepts, or do you have trouble with the "canned" tests. Once you get into the real world, as a hard worker, you may be fine. I had a 2.8 myself, but the real thing I got from college was to learn how to learn, so I frequently am counted on to take up new challenges and have done well.

 

[ivymike]

After your first job, your GPA won't mean anything. I've been out of school for quite some time now, and in my last job switch (which happened at ~7 years out) the company I was hired by had a 3.0 GPA minimum. I don't know whether they would still have hired me if I didn't meet the minimum - I do know that I had to both sign a form saying I swear I did better than that AND provide a transcript to back it up.

My personal opinion is that such policies can exclude some of the best engineers. Perhaps someone didn't get good grades because he was working 60hrs a week to pay for school (and carrying a full load), but excels in practical applications of his schoolwork? Is that guy a worse candidate than someone with a parent-sponsored 3.5 who spent his weekends partying, and had the extra cash to buy notes at the bookstore and hire a tutor for each class, and turned in all the homework on time but really doesn't know what it all means?

 

[kchayfie]

When it came to applying for my first graduate job, my degree result meant my resume wouldn't have made it past the first HR filter. However, I'd spent some time working for the company before my degree so I applied straight to the engineering manager. He didn't care what results I got and he knew I was capable from the work I'd done before so I got straight in there. And when lay-offs were on the cards 18 months later, the next company didn't look at my degree results.

Would you be able to go back and get a job where you did your internships? Or could you use the contacts you made in those places to find a job later? Its been said before on this site but the best way to find a job is networking. Contacts that know you personally and know your strengths will help more than an anonymous GPA.

 

[MintJulep]

Any job openings at the companies that you interned for?

 

[Ashereng]

A recent grad's GPA figures huge in most interviews - it is all we have to go by.

Sure, internships help. But, if it wasn't at "My" company, it is hard to tell what the real work you did was. Were you playing softball most of the time, or actually contributing to a project?

For me, the fact that your GPA is going downwards would raise flags. Most student's GPA come up. Party first year. Catch up on missed work second year. Doing well third year. Doing well or better fourth year.

In the later years, students are asked to "think" more, to use what they know and apply it more. In fourth year, you typically have a design project. These are the skills that most engineering firms need. If you don't know the information, you can look it up. If you don't know what to do with the information, or can't process it, then there is a greater problem.

On the other hand, 2.7 or 2.8 isn't too low (I am assuming your GPA is out of 4?). High light what you do well, and your other accomplishments.

I would also advise that you be prepared to look for work beyond the hiring process at your school. You may need to look for yourself. Start with the company you interened for. Talk to your old manager - he will have friends that he may recommend your resume to. Talk to your parents, friends, etc.

Good Luck.

 

[ziggi]

I've got about 3 years under my belt, and I was in a similar situation to you upon graduation, ie. a 2.8 GPA, the only difference was that I got better as I went along.
In my case I didn't even put my GPA on my resume which may been a bad idea, b/c I should have highlighted that I did very well in my last two years to ease the interviewers worries.
In the end my GPA didn't mean squat b/c I got a job primarily b/c I knew someone who knew the engineering manager. I got laid off from that job 14 months later and the second place to hire me on didn't blink an eye about my GPA.

An interesting trend though, it took me 4 months to find my first job out of university, 2 months to find my second and no time to find my present job (my second employer shut down and I started here the next day).

The only time I can see your GPA being a problem is if you want to go to grad school with less than about 5 years of experience under your belt. Any more than that and they won't really care, especially if you have taken some continuing education courses (and done well) in between.

 

[zcp]

Okay, ShiftF4, let’s role play. You just sat down for the interview; we got the pleasantries out of the way. Now the question,

“I see you are having difficultly in your senior level courses. Why is that?”

Take a few minutes and try to answer this on the forum as you would in the interview. Then we will give you some tips / comments based upon your answer.

Some follow up questions from me would be:

“How will you overcome a general lack of theoretical knowledge?”

“How do you approach your design projects? Especially if it is in an area of knowledge you are weak in?

“Is there anything you can tell me from your internships that would offset your difficulty with senior level EE classes?”

ShiftF4, please note that a lot of interviewers will look at what those classes were you were having trouble in…..if for instance you can’t do circuit boards but can do power and my company is in the high power business, then you are probably okay.

But if you have low grades across the board in all senior level EE courses, then it is not too late to consider a new major. If you swapped over to IE for instance and made awesome grades, then I would be impressed that you were willing to work at it and finally found what you were good at….overall GPA would not matter in that case.


ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[DLauEng]

My professor once told me:

Students with 4.0s will get their PhDs and become professors
Students with 3.0s will get a job, working for someone
Students with 2.0s will start their own company and hire the 3.0s

I graduated with a 2.6 and four offers. How did I do it?

-I went to every career fair offered by the school.
-I looked at all sources that had job postings (i.e. Craigslist, Monster, Eng-Tips, etc).
-I submitted my resume to every job posting that I was qualified for.
-I went onto company's website to see if they're hiring.
-I interviewed with whoever gave me an interview.
-I worked on my interview skills by interviewing with companies that I knew wouldn't hire me, i.e. sales management positions ( I had a lot of sales jobs including a sales management internship).
-I didn't list my gpa on my resume and when they asked what it was, I gave them my reason, i.e. "Before I tell you my gpa, (insert reason). My gpa is (insert gpa)."

I hope that helps...

BTW, I graduated 3 months ago and have been working for a company with a minimum gpa of 2.75.

DLauEng

 

[ivymike]

forgot the exception for libras and scorpios...

 

[Latexman]

DLauEng,

I heard it this way:

The professor said,

"Be nice to the PhDs, they bring in research grants."
"Be very nice to the MSs, they teach the students."
"Be especially nice to the BSs, they build the university."

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[JStephen]

Shift, I can tell you that from the other side of the mark, it's not all roses either. I graduated long ago with a very good GPA, but that didn't really seem to impress anyone at the time.

 

[ziggi]

DLauEng,
It's funny but that comment is really true, all my friends at uni with 4s went into grad school right after uni...to become professors, all the 3s found jobs fairly quickly and are happy being sedentary and me...I was a 2.85, I spend most of my days at hoem and at work (in management or something resembling it...I don't know how I got that)thinking about what sort of business I can start.

 

[ddelaiarro]

Does your school break out your major GPA and your overall GPA? For instance, when I graduated, I had a 2.995 overall GPA (they won't round up on my transcript - it's listed as 2.99). I was slightly over a 3.0 in my engineering coursework and slightly under in my gen-ed coursework. You said that many of your non-engineering (gen-ed) courses are pulling you down. You may want to mention only your engineering coursework GPA on a resume (but spell it out that way).

Personally, I didn't put my GPA on my resume. I felt that, if the company was more concerned with how I did test-wise and not how I fit into their picture, then it wasn't a place I wanted to work. It's a bit of a utopian point of view, but it's worked well for me. That being said, I never had a problem telling them my overall GPA and my major (engineering) GPA as well as explaining that I brought it up in the last 1.5 years of schooling.

2.8 is not a bad GPA to have. It may cause a bit of concern up front, but I tend to think that experience, interview skills, and proven ability are more important than some stupid little number.

 

[OleRoy]

I can whole heartedly see where you concern is. I myself was in the same situation, possibly worse than you but there is hope. I graduated in Fall 2003 from a 4 year Engineering College that I started in Spring of 99. Well if you do the math you can see that I graduated a semester late. As fate would have it I didn't even graduate with an Engineering degree. I did start my initial two years under the engineering program, passed the preliminary classes but was put on academic suspension for low grades. Mind you it was not due to partying as I'm not that sort of person but thats how my cards were dealt. After a semester off, I decided that I should leave the engineering program to stave off the possibility of even lower grades upon return which, in turn would result in another year long suspension. Well after this huge wake up call, it was nose to the grindstone having to do summer school every summer just to catch up since I switched out majors and was basically undeclared half way through my college career. After having many doors closed in front of me and countless of people saying that there was no hope of graduating in four years with what you could hardly call a decent GPA I was in a huge rut. Now it is in my nature to build things and I love to do that sort of work so my heart was still set on landing an engineering job. In the end I brought my overall GPA to a 2.94 but my in-major GPA was considerably higher at 3.76 and my two minors at 3.52 and 3.54. Compare those numbers to the 0.8 GPA (yes you are reading it correctly) that I earned the semester I got put on academic suspension. After a year of unrelated work, I managed to land an Engineering job eventhough I didn't graduate with an engineering degree. These factors (as others have mentioned) helped me:

Motivation and wanting to do Engineering work (ie. applying for engineering jobs I know I wouldn't get but landed some interviews).

Knowing how and what to say during the interview process either on phone and ultimately in-person. Highlight your strengths and explain what happened in your situation and what you did to overcome those past obstacles. As a previous poster had mentioned, if your college splits up overall and in-major/minor GPA's highlight whichever one is higher during the interview. I sure did!

Having the motivation and ability to learn and adapt to change and new experiences (ie. being a fast learner and wanting to know everything about a job, problem, etc not just provide end results without understanding the aggregate picture).

Contacts and networking also plays a big part in where you end up. Be professional with all you meet and don't burn your bridges because those people can be vital contacts in landing your next job. Sometimes its who you know and not what you know and while I have my own reservations on that issue, it usually turns out to be true.

I hope my experience can help to enlighten you on your situation and help you overcome all the negativity you may feel, have felt or my encounter. Its been a struggle for me too but I can honestly say that I am happier at my new job. It may take a while but with perseverence you will see it through.

 

[crossframe]

Consider also the reputation of the school. Employers know the difference between a 2.5 at a good school and a 3.9 at a diploma mill.