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Grease Alternative

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Adalius

Mechanical
Feb 13, 2009
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I'm scratching my head (since I'm just a dumb construction worker ;) and figured maybe someone here could come up with a brilliant idea that I'm overlooking.

Background:
We have a large skidding system; essentially it's two heavy steel beams fully reinforced with two inverted channels (picture a cap channel not welded to the beam) on which the item we need to move (typically heavy transformers but whatever our customer wants) sits. Two large hydraulic cylinders pinned to the beam push the channels along the top of the beam, the pins are then removed, cylinders retracted, pins reinserted further along the beam, and then the cylinders re-extended in this fashion over and over to crawl the load forward. It's a fairly common piece of equipment in our line of work. The channels put about 100-140psi onto the beam at full load, but a more common operating range is about 50-70psi given that most of the cargo isn't at the systems maximum weight.

Traditionally we used to use a paste made of ivory soap flakes to lubricate it during use (economically, it was cheap, environmentally, it washed away and the volume we used wasn't a concern at a given site). The problem with flakes was two fold, primarily Ivory stopped selling them in 1993 and other brands just didn't work as well, and secondly, the paste is hard to work with when it's below freezing, which is quite common for our work here in Wisconsin. We were using grease afterwards but as you can imagine, that makes a huge mess since the surfaces are exposed (80' or so, 12" wide, right in the middle of construction sites) so they not only collect all sorts of dust and dirt but also get all over the workers.

We worked with a plastic engineer to design some low friction lubricant impregnated polymer plates to install on the skidding surface to use instead of the soap flakes and grease. In testing they work just fine. The problem we have right now in the short term is the beams have been cleaned and prepped for the plastic install (fastener holes drilled/tapped/etc, repainted), but some emergency jobs came up that we need to use the system on before I can get the rest of the project finished to the point where we can utilize the new plastic wear plates. So in the interim I need some lubrication options better than what we have.

So to summarize all the above:
Is there a good lubricating option for this situation that anyone can think of that is:
A) Economical (~$10-20/gallon)
B) Environmentally friendly/less messy than grease (water soluble but able to handle temps down to 0F would be ideal)
C) Comparable friction reduction to grease/soap.
D) I would imagine it needs to be thick like a grease/paste for our application too.
E) Removable without too much effort when we get ready to install the plastic finally (steam cleaner removable, etc)

Hopefully one of the wise sages on this site has some ideas. :)
 
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we use parrifin wax to install the generator field into the stator. diferance is the sliding shoe is hard wood or backolite. we warm the metal sked plate with touch, wipe the bars, wax melts and builds up a fairly thick skin. the shavings that my enter the generator are not harmful
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I recall my old Marks Handbook (which was borrowed years ago) gave the coeffecient of friction of steel on steel with Bannanas a pretty low value!
 
Any brand of soap flakes should work - google shows that there are several types still on the market. For cold weather, add a little alcohol (or propylene glycol engine coolant).
 
Hahah, yea, I looked around to find some and wasn't having an easy time in bulk outside of a company from England that sells 20# bags but based on past experience I'd need a whole skid of those and a small concrete mixer. Other soap flakes just don't work as well as the Ivory ones for some reason, but the water mix in the paste was the issue with the freezing. Alcohol might be a decent solution to that if it doesn't evaporate out, and antifreeze has some serious environmental consequences. I can't imagine the customer wants us dumping soap and antifreeze all over the place. Usually we're using 20+ gallons of mixture for the job. Once we put this coating on, the job takes about 6-8 hours outside in the weather so it's either baking in the sun, or like right now, freezing solid.

The problem with using parrafin like byrdj suggests is that we have several hundred feet of track, some jobs use 40', some use 160', some use the whole barn of steel. So to heat and apply wax on several coats would be extremely time consuming plus I have some serious concern that since this is steel on steel with several hundred tons of weight on it that it'd just gouge right through it.
 
Yes, standard ethylene glycol antifreeze has toxicity/environmental issues. But, I specifically stated propylene glycol, it's non toxic (it's used as a sweetener/humectant in a lot of foods) and considered a pretty benign thing to spill, certainly less of an issue than typical petroleum greases.
 
Ahhh, guess I saw glycol and my mind went right to antifreeze. Apologies. Hrm, $500 for a 482# 55 gal drum. That sounds do-able. You may have found the solution I'm looking for. :)
 
Under those pressures it tends to generate enough heat to just render it back to water. We'd have to put a fairly thick layer of ice to make it work properly and we structurally can't put anything more than a fluid layer in without remanufacturing things (hence the problem I'm having with the plastic).
 
Not knowing exactly the arrangment, but is it posible to apply a pressurized fed to the slide so no need to coat/lube the lenght of rails?

I have a gut feeling pnematics is not possible, but I was surprised when I first used them to move some shield walls.
 
You mean a pressurized feed of lubricant? Not easily no. These slides travel over the beams until they reach the heavy duty semi-trailer (100+ ton rated). Once they get there, they slide over what we call layover plates, which are little more than 1" plate. bolted to the ends of the beam. So between the load and the semi trailer there's maybe 2" of clearance. To use a pneumatic system would either require more headroom for the pumping assembly, or to drag hoses/pumps/etc around. Right now one guy just goes around applying this stuff ahead of the slides. Another concern is that you're dealing with several hundred tons of steel several feet in the air on cribbing piles. In practice it's really safe, but we still try to keep personnel out of the hazard zone as much as possible, so by doing the rails we can work 20'+ ahead of the load.
 
We have air skidding equipment for similar uses on a smaller scale, but no, these are not anywhere near flat enough to do that. The other problem is that the shoes are 20' or so, trying to balance the air over that length when the load isn't always the same size, located in the same spot, or symmetrical makes it difficult. You tend to end up with spots that catch or sag.
 
Adalius
When we were stretch forming aircraft stringers we had a similar requirement for a grease that would wash off.
We used a substance called Duckbutter made by Oatey. This was basically a soap with other ingredients added, we would buy this in 5 gallon pails.
This would stand the extreme pressure of the stretch forming machine allowing the parts to slide over the die,
and it washed off with water. Try contacting them and see if they have anything that would work for you,
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
 http://www.oatey.com/doc/duckbutter.pdf
Berkshire: I called Oatey, Duck Butter starts to harden around 10F, we're working outside on one of these right now and it's -3F so Oatey recommended against that product. Their guy is digging around to see if they have anything else that can handle the cold but he didn't sound promising. Might be a good option if it warms up though.
 
WRT air levitation, this may come in handy in the future.

Instead of feeding air into the center of one huge rectangular flat bearing plate, divide the plate into sections, e.g. by routing a groove around each section, leaving a margin between the groove and the edge of the material, and feed the air into the center of each of those 'pads'. If the air feed to each pad includes an orifice, the pads will self-adjust to some extent. You might include a ball valve to shut off the air to some pads for grossly unbalanced loads, but the orifices should make that unnecessary.

The edge margin and the central portion of each pad can be at the same level; no need to get fancy. The groove equalizes the pressure around its periphery, and once levitated, the central pad will be at the same pressure. The leakage rate can be estimated by assuming a levitation distance, with only the edge margin subject to a pressure gradient, and the central pad and the groove at a uniform pressure. In oil hydrostatic cylindrical bearings, the orifices are sized so that the pad and groove are at half the supply pressure. In a flat bearing, you have less control over the gap; it is what it is when the pad pressure times the pad area balances the load.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
All I can really say about air skid systems is that I'm not impressed. We have one and it's been hardly used at all. They require far too ideal of a situation to work properly in our particular application. In regards to floor skids, for the weights we deal in they require some pretty smooth floors which are awfully rare, plus they have to be clean, small metal chips would cause them to lose too much air and stop working, and there's the noise of having to run high CFMs of air to support it. In the particular application I'm referencing above, the beams aren't always perfectly level or square to one another so you'd have a whole ton of jointed segments, and more joints means more parts which means more points of failure. It's just not as simple as the current beam/shoe/ram setup.

I think air skidding systems have their place, we've installed air bearings and similar that work really slick, but my experience is that machinery moving is not that place.
 
adalius
The duck butter was simply a commercial substitute for your soap flakes which you now cannot get.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
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