Having hard time leaving first job out of college? 5

[kywill]

I currently work for a small firm owned by a father(70) and son(40) both are PEs and PLSs. We do site work/water/wastewater engineering and just employ me, a survey chief, and a secretary. I just passed my PE and applied for another job with a mid size firm, which I have been offered. I would make more money and get more benefits, I currently have 5 days vacation a year, no retirement, and no sick days. Here's the catch someday I would like to own my own firm or crazy as it sounds get into commercial development. The new job would be water/wastewater only, whereas now I do a mix of all civil. I have thought I may someday be a partner, but the father won't retire. Anyone ever been in a similar situation? Thanks

 

[SomptingGuy]

"5 days vacation a year, no retirement, and no sick days"

Run. Run like hell! Any job is better.

- Steve

 

[Ron]

I believe Paul Simon cleared that up..."Just slip out the back, Jack...Make a new plan, Stan...Don't need to be coy, Roy....

 

[SLTA]

Is it worth seeing if your old job will cough up benefits to match your new job? Maybe this will inspire the dad to retire.

 

[IRstuff]

Time for a heart-to-heart with your current management. However, given that the father is 70 and still doesn't want to retire, the odds are long...

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[Latexman]

Does the son have a daughter?

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Then again (and I hope not) Dad may be gone sooner than later - mine did.

How does he expect to retire?? SS only??

I presume you are an EIT or working on PE?? If so, maybe you really haven't yet paid your "dues" and may need some more tempering.. But 2 weeks vac and no benefits is inexcusable. Even Walmart gives you that.

You need to sit down w/ Dad and Bro and figure a succession scheme - or RUN as suggested.

BTW - maybe they are waiting for you to have the gumption to speak up and address these issues??

 

[cvg]

unless you plan to cough up some money to buy them out or you think you can drum up your own business, why would they want to make you a partner?

 

[abusementpark]

I believe Paul Simon cleared that up..."Just slip out the back, Jack...Make a new plan, Stan...Don't need to be coy, Roy....

... just get yourself free.



I'd give you a double star for that post if I could.

 

[Ron]

cvg...thanks...I couldn't remember the rest of the line!!!

 

[pmover]

change is good!

what are you afraid of? sounds like you need a break . . .

there are other pastures to graze in . . . and not necessarily the company that made you an offer.

regardless, good luck!!
-pmover

 

[rowingengineer]

correct me if I am wrong, but you have worked for this father & son operation for atleast 5 years. during this period there has been a ression for atleast 3 years. in this time they have kept you on as an employee, and havn't fired you, cut you pay, but havn't changes your sick days?

Why not talk to them? It is really disappointing when you leave somewhere and they say, we were thinking you wanted to take over and ............. bla bla bla, you just flushed away you chances of becoming a partner. and even better when the mid sized firm was only hiring for the lastest project and that goes belly up and your head is now the first on the chopping block.

Normally you don't get big raises and changes of conditions if you don't say anything. if you can't get up the gumption to talk to your boss at you current job, when you move it won't take long for your new place work out that you are a statue.

ANY FOOL CAN DESIGN A STRUCTURE. IT TAKES AN ENGINEER TO DESIGN A CONNECTION.”

 

[ajack1]

I pretty much agree with everything rowingengineer says.

If you are serious about one day being a partner or owner you will need to negotiate on a daily basis and how good you are at it will determine to a large degree how successful you and the company are. Every contract is a negotiation, be it getting in work, employing people, office rental or purchase the list is never ending.

What have you got to lose by talking to them? You might get exactly what you want, although highly unlikely, but at least you will have gained some experience in negotiation. If you really don’t like this sort of “conflict” and would just sooner walk away then you really are not cut out for being an owner or partner at this company or any other.

 

[Ron]

abusementpark....sorry I gave cvg credit for your memory!! Mea Culpa.

 

[abusementpark]

I currently work for a small firm owned by a father(70) and son(40) both are PEs and PLSs. We do site work/water/wastewater engineering and just employ me, a survey chief, and a secretary. I just passed my PE and applied for another job with a mid size firm, which I have been offered. I would make more money and get more benefits

Has your current firm offered you a new salary to account for you being a PE? If so, how much of a percentage pay raise is the other firm offering you?

I currently have 5 days vacation a year, no retirement, and no sick days. Here's the catch someday I would like to own my own firm or crazy as it sounds get into commercial development. The new job would be water/wastewater only, whereas now I do a mix of all civil.

Those benefits are pretty poor. If you plan on staying, I would definitely have a talk with them about how abysmal their benefits package is compared to other firms. Most firms give 2-3 weeks of paid time off, and I think 3 weeks is probably the norm. Also, a lot of firms have retirement packages as well with matching contributions. I can understand not wanting to make the switch since you like the mixed experience of civil work. Trying to hold out and find a job with a another firm that does similar work may be a good option to consider.

I have thought I may someday be a partner, but the father won't retire.

Based on the information you have given, I wouldn't bank on this. Even once the father retire or dies (whichever comes first), the son is likely going to want to retain full ownership. Now, working in such a small firm may offer you the opportunities to build strong relationships with clients and make a good name for yourself in the field. This would likely allow you to ultimately branch off and start your own firm if the son doesn't want to let you in on the profit sharing.

 

[weab]

kywill,

There is nothing wrong with taking another job. This new job will still give you valuable experience and apparently give you better benefits. It is normal to make a change like this.

Your statement would imply that if you take this job, it would be your last before attempting to start your own practice, that you will have no other chance to get varied experience. Why would you think this? You may yet move to another job that will give you the well rounded experience that you are looking for. Then, you can look to hanging your own shingle.

Don't over think this. While making a job change is a big decision, you have an ultimate goal. There are multiple ways to your goal. You can decide to accept your offer or not for other reasons. But your goals can be met either way. Good luck.

 

[kywill]

Update, the father and son can't add anymore sick days or vacation days. The new firm has stated they would be looking for a partner in the water/wastewater division possibly in the next several years but no guarantees, which I understand and am fine with. My company has given me a 10% pe raise, and the new firm would only be about a 4% raise above that. I plan on giving my two weeks in the next couple days should be interesting.....Thanks for all the advise

 

[JAE]

advice.

 

[looslib]

Can't add or won't add???
How much vacation time do each of them take a year?
Do they get paid sick days?
Do you get paid no matter how many hours you work?
What happens if you take a sick day, do they dock your pay for the day?
Sit down with dad and son before you give notice and explain what YOU are looking for. You have nothing to lose if you have another job in your pocket. It is easier negotiating with a small private company than with a corporation.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[vc66]

There's a difference between positions and interests. This is a father/son business. Before giving your notice, tell them your interests, i.e. you'd like to be the partner in a firm someday or you'd like to learn x, y and z. If you just take the position of, "I want more vacation days", you sound petulant; however, if you say, "I'd like to spend more time with my family", it's more heartfelt and you're more likely to receive a favorable response.

If they're not willing to negotiate with you, then you have the new position as your best alternative--which doesn't seem too bad from the description.

Good luck.

V