Heavy Civil Construction Estimating 2

[Kuhuh]

I am a civil engineer taking on more of an estimating role for a heavy construction general engineering contractor. I, like most young engineers, lack the true field time to obtain solid productivity rates and estimating methodologies. Can someone please recommend some great study material. After searching on google I determined many manuals are outdated and provide lots of different personal opinions which can be hard for a young engineer to gauge.

 

[civilman72]

There isn't a manual that will give you the answers you need. Costs and productivity rates can vary dramatically between each job, are based on being competitive with others in your region, location of materials in relation to the job site, types of equipment used to complete the work, etc.

Hopefully you can find a mentor in the company. Otherwise you can look at older costs proposals your company has put together and start to break-down each line item unit cost to get a general baseline and then determine how/why they vary from project to project.

 

[Kuhuh]

I understand it wont give me the answers but rather I'm looking for a manual on how to develop the methodologies, identifying the risks and how to associate them to activities. Maybe even contain examples of how certain factors effect normal work rates/processes. I have the mentors but most people will always say "that's just how I do it" when asked why. There are so many books out there thought I would ask to help eliminate buying 100 books.

 

[beej67]

The Means Sitework Manual and the Caterpillar Performance Handbook will carry you a long way. My copies are old, so I can only presume these thigns are still available in a hardcopy format. An online subscription to the Means website will help quite a bit as well.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[concretemasonry]

Kuhuh -

Since you are short on field experience and working for a heavy construction and engineering contractor, you should be able to find a way to relate to the field by working with or talking to the field personnel to get their personnel and finding out what their problems are relating to real construction situations on different type of climates, construction and materials.

While in engineering school (thankfully a 5 year curriculum)and working summers on highway and bridge construction. The best experience was working as field liaison engineer on a huge iron ore processing facility (2500 employees daily for several years). This ranging from railroad sub grades, bridges and manufacturing/processing buildings. Dirt jobs were up to 2,700,000 yards plus another 500,000 yard of rock excavation with soils ranging from muskeg to silty sand and ideal base materials.

I learned more from being in/relating to the field there after a good, solid engineering education and a couple of years of being facilities engineering in the aerospace industry where the "cowboys" ruled the roost to make engines and test them in real life, than I ever got from a prescriptive "manual".

Being with a large firm will give you the opportunity to learn the other practical side and still interact with the estimators that created to construction projects for the firm and what irregularities and problems are.

Just keep your eyes and ears open and absorb and understand since your firm must build and perform according to specifications (the manual) and understand what the real world is.

Dick

Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.

 

[dhengr]

Don’t ENR and McGraw-Hill still publish pricing info. for different materials and work efforts, for different regions of the country? Talk with different people in your office about their ref. materials and text books or handbooks; also go to a good engineering library for more books and ref. material. Get a look at some of the choices and then buy a few that best meet your needs and fit your style. Subscribe to ENR, go to some AGC meetings, see if you can find a mentor who cares enough about your advancement to really be helpful, and remember, it’s a two way street. So show you want to learn.

 

[bridgebuster]

Kuhuh - you're working for a contractor and you need productivity rates; what's wrong with this picture? Doesn't your employer have this information?

Ask the superintendents for their opinion; they're probably the best resource.

 

[chicopee]

Kuhuh , project managers, also called superintendents, and foremen can assist you; concretemasonry alluded to these people, I know I was an engineer on Federally subsidized bridge construction and that was one of the best time of my life, never a dull moment; expect very long hours during bidding time and on the jobs.

 

[chicopee]

One more thing, remember that the effectiveness of overtime on job sites becomes ineffective if the overtime period is too long ,ie, in my estimation more than two weeks time, give or take.

 

[miningman]

Chicopee , whats your opinion of those of us who work in the field for two, four six or sometimes eight weeks at a time, typically 10 or 12 hours a day , seven days a week?? One doesn't know what one is capabable of untill one pushes ones limits.. and for me that was eight weeks, never again!!

 

[Kuhuh]

bridgebuster-I am young, I have the initiative to realize that I am not getting help to the full extent at work so I ask for help/advice and yet you are criticizing me for doing so. Whats wrong with this picture???
To the others- I understand spending time in the field is the best form of ed-you-me-cation but there has to be a manual or reference you constantly turn to, or one that help you when you were starting off. Any suggestions? thanks for your input so far.

 

[chicopee]

My opinion of extended overtime is that the field workers will only put out roughly 8 hours of works instead of the intended 10 to 12 hours a day. Construction work is no picnic and the human body, physically and mentality slows down, costly errors are made and accidents rise. You would be better off to have two shifts whereby the night shift would tend to work on less demanding tasks for the obvious reason of less visibility.

 

[Qshake]

I should think the best thing to do is to check into RS Means for estimating reference material. If you can't afford a subscription then check out any older versions (hard copies) from online resources such as ebay.

Compare the values from the Heavy Construction volume to those of your company. This will provide you some perspective when talking to more senior estimators. Also put some thought into the task, how would you do it or set it up? Consider people, equipment, budgets available to you as a company. Again this will provide perspective and get you to think about the effort involved instead of just taking values from a book.

Lastly there are some texts out there on the topic of Construction Methods as well as Construction Estimating.

Good luck.




Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[bridgebuster]

kuhuh - I'm sorry if it sounded as though I was criticizing you; I wasn't (although at time I do come off as a bull in a china shop.) My point was this: You're estimating work and you're employer seems to be leaving you in the dark. Years back, I worked for two contractors, we had historic rates from our projects, RS Means, Ryerson, etc, and something's were seat of the pants based on what we thought the production should be or what we needed it to be.

The estimating I do now is from the other side of the on the other side of the fence (this is a case where you don't want to be the low bidder; coming in 2nd or 3rd is ideal) As Qshake stated, Means is a good source of information. I use it for some things; painting, excavating, etc; things are fairly straight up. On a bridge rehab job, where there are steel repairs, bearing replacements, bridge jacking Means isn't geared toward that type of work.

You didn't mention what type of heavy/civil construction. People have didn't interpretation of heavy construction.

 

[Kuhuh]

bridgebuster- now that is an answer! You are right they are leaving me in the dark. It's rather annoying but fortunately for me I know how to use resources like this forum to learn my self. We do lots of different projects so that's another problem that I understand no one will "exactly" be able to help me but it looks like a good way to start learning is looking into the RS means and compare to the rates the guys in the field are pumping out on current projects. I eventually want to create a spread sheet as Cal Trans has. Kind of start of with a base production rate and modify it with a "difficulty factor" ( remember I am an engineer i like coefficients) to either decrease/ increase the productivity based on the varying difficulty and risk. The only thing I see being a problem with this is the spread sheet would be tremendously large and its almost impossible to track a rate for every little tiny aspect that goes into the full construction phase. Do these little items get factored in separately or are they considered in production rates of the major construction items?

 

[bridgebuster]

Kuhuh,

Factors are a subjective thing. It's hard to say where to add them. One thing to keep in mind, estimators need to work with schedulers. Too often that becomes a disconnect in the process and these two items have to go hand in hand.

Also NJDOT has a scheduling manual that you might find helpful.

 

[acerians]

Do some visiting on the field, now a day different tools and equipment that are coming out. Many books and manuals are far verry high on its factor of safety that makes your estimates verry high, you are new in the field so site visiting and self education is the best and make your own manual... many teachers or mentors doesn't teach every thing that they know... for prices changes every season and places.History on your office helps you too. Asking at the "correct person" will help you.