Help needed !! 3

[EQguys]

Alright!! Let me begin with my intro. I am a EIT and have joined my first job out of grad school and have been in this job for 5 months now.

My immediate bosses are two guys, one with 30 years experience and other one with 2 years experience. We three deal with all the structural design work in the office and we get along with each other amazingly well. Enter – the brown noser of the company, a guy with a year experience in civil work. This guy has a bachelors in physics and got into the company by the recommendation of the company presidents’ daughter who was this guys' classmate in college.

This guy is totally insecure about his technical knowledge and makes up for it by dressing up everyday like a billionaire and brown nosing the president every single day. He even has taken up “reporting” to the president every day activities and conversations of the entire office. He even ridicules how people in the office dress up, how people in the office maintain their cubicles, how the work done by every person is way too downgraded compared to his work etc. etc.

So at the end of the day when the performance appraisal came up, the guy with 30 years experience was told to emulate the “management” work of the brown noser. And now it turns out that we (us 3) were given a 2% raise and no bonus and this guy was given a 10% raise and a 2000$ bonus.

Work wise the brown noser has done some serious mistakes in his civil work which has cost the company a lot of time, effort and money.

I am seriously considering quitting the job and looking for some place else coz I think the company doesn’t value the technical knowledge and abilities of anybody. I want a feedback from all you people out there and tell me is this normal behavior by any company or am I just whining.

 

[jmw]

You have got it right - move on.
If the management/owner can act this way, not just giving the guy a job but for then listening to him, you have a major problem and no amount of complaining will do any good.

You have a couple of colleagues who are probably thinking exactly what you are and if you want to beat them to the best jobs you need to beat them out of the door.

I guess that in today's world 6 months in your first job will be pretty well OK. Getting the first job is always the problem but once you have held it for a while you should be much better placed to find the second since you can demonstrate aome experience (mainly that you weren't let go in the probationary period and are leaving voluntarily).

Just curious but how did you discover what his brown-nosing activities consist of and how did you discover the pay deal information? I just hope that someone isn't feeding you information for some other reasons.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TheTick]

The company president apparently values a good bung-polishing more than competent engineering. Either deliver what he values or find an employer who values what you deliver.

 

[rbulsara]

Just get out of this company! Find a more professional place, there are many.

At your stage (or at any stage) there is no point picking up battles with management. In life you may come across many obstacles, if you cant move them, go around them.

 

[blutfort]

Sounds to me like you are justified in being upset, AND whining. You will get a lot further and be a lot happier not worrying about how much of a raise Joe and Pete got. Spend your time and energy focusing on the things you can change. Not the brown nosing behavior of someone else.

Life is not a zero sum game, nor is it fair.

Maybe the new guy started at 20k and the 10% raise gets him to 22k. The guy with 30 years experience is probably capped out and only going to see CoL adjustments to his pay. Is he surprised at a 2% raise? Why is the fact that he has a degree in physics relevant? So what if he made huge errors that cost the company money. Maybe he also processed five times the number of projects that you did and made the company 17 times more money on those projects.

People dress up for a reason. It is conditioned behavior. When they dress up, they seem to get better recognition and better rewards. Fight it all you like and be unhappy with it, but changing will be a long slow fight. I too think it sucks. I could probably make 10-15k more if I dressed for success and shaved every day. I just don't think it's worth it.
There is always going to be someone who is friends with the boss's daughter. There is always going to be someone who gets a bigger raise.(Not clear if this is the case here.)

There is always someone who gravitates more to the management side than the technical side. If you don't think you can handle this then I'd suggest looking for a small shack in the middle of the woods OR starting your own company. You will find this exact situation in several other jobs over your lifetime.

Cartoons like Dilbert and websites like despair.com are funny and successful because they reflect reality. If everyone valued engineers as much as we value ourselves, Scott Adams would have no material.

Good luck with your dilemma, but IMO you will most likely find this whereever you may roam.

 

[rbulsara]

EQguys:

There is a strong possibility that that guy was hired exactly to do what he does. May be he will marry your boss's daughter!

Your goal at time would be to learn the trade and not complain about raises or worry about management. Let the veterans fight it out, if it is a real problem. Once you have good experience look elsewhere if you are not happy.

 

[ajack1]

Five months in is not long to be deciding how a company should be run or who deserves what.

Personally I am always very wary of people who blame everything on management or hold the view that anyone that gets on must be “brown nosing” to do so. In my experience these are just excuses to cover up for their own deficiencies.

I would be very careful that you are not being used as a pawn by others who are not happy with the pay raises they got, as jmw says the information you give is not normally available.

If you wish to leave then you possibly should but beware the grass is not always greener on the other side. It is highly unlikely that someone with five months experience is going to make management change its style so taking them on is not likely to be a good choice if you wish to stay.

A better strategy might be to knuckle down for a year and try to get on, I am not suggesting you “brown nose” but keep your head down and try to fit in and keep out of any company politics and review the situation after another year or so.

 

[Zapster]

EQguys

Do you know the difference between a brown-noser and a kiss-a__ ?

Depth perception!

 

[Drumchaser]

IT IS MY PERCEPTION YOU ARE GOING ABOUT ALL THIS THE IN THE WRONG MANNER:

1) Locate and hook up with company presidents' daughter.
2) Exhibit your overwhelmingly better attributes and technique.
3) Get some dirt on the hog-smoker (brown noser).
4) Engage the situation from multiple angles.

Sorry, had to exercise some tomfoolery.

Seriously - I tend to agree with blutfort. "Rarely" does anything good come from knowing what your peers make.

You need to concentrate on "your program" (at this time you are in training and real world appl. mode)
I also think too many people "trust" co-workers in a way that makes them vulnerable.
I am not speaking about long term (5-10 yr.) relationships, but ones that take time to figure out you are being "taken to school" so to speak.

 

[EQguys]

Thank you all you guys !! But to make it more clear

To jmw: His brown-nosing is pretty blatant. After he goes and talks to the president, usually there is a one on one talk between the president and the guy with issue. Trust me it is not just a false information.

To blutfort: Thanks a ton for the reply. Honestly, I am happy with what I make right now and I am not worried about whar others make and what raise did they deserve. But it hurts to see that our genuine efforts are not suitably rewarded. May be it IS how it is in real professional world. I think I need some time to learn the trade and may be later the trick of the trade. But I do agree that I might be whining a bit. I keep telling myself to keep my eyes and ears open and mouth shut and learn as much as I can. Your comments are appreciated bud.

To Ajack1: Yes you are right when you say I shouldnt knuckle the management right now. I understand that. May be couple of years down the line I will be definitely looking to switch over. Thanks !!

 

[asixth]

I believe it is important to present yourself in a professional manner, so I would say it is important to "dress to impress", keep your workstation organised and present your work attractively. As for the brown-noser, if they don't have a clue what they are talking about technically then they will be exposed eventually. But it sounds like this guy may be going down the business management track where it is very important to be a "smoocher".

Assess your development after 6 months and whether you can handle yourself out there on the market because the first question you will be asked when you go for an interview is "why did you leave your last job after 6 months". Like myself you is 12 months out of college, you may notice that structures jobs are not as plentiful as they were 1-2 years ago.

Early in your career it is very important that you achieve good "technical, professional and personal developmnet". If the ccompany you are at are not delivering this than I would be looking elsewhere. There is no subsitute for development early in your career.

 

[casseopeia]

The suck-up wouldn't exist without the willing participation of the suckee. The fact that your boss wants you to emulate the hog-smoker says even more about your boss. He likes it and doesn’t care what it does to company moral.

You could try having a talk with the boss, but my guess is that it will go nowhere. If you were older or more veteran in the company, you’d have a chance. But a new graduate telling a 30-year veteran and business owner to cut it out, no way. Not going to be a good outcome for you. Save it for the exit interview.

I’d stay as long as it’s useful and leave for greener pastures when convenient.

In the meantime, you could find a good Management Training Seminar, maybe in the Virgin Islands, and ask your boss if you could go there to become more like Mr. Brown Nose.




"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[diarmud]

You have to stick it out, otherwise you will always be running. Life isn't fair. You can emulate the suck up or continue to be professional and learn engineering. After you have been there a few years, if you are still unhappy, you can leave on your terms.

Enjoy working with your colleagues who aren't suck ups and DO NOT talk about this to anyone, discussions may come back to hurt your career.

If others are talking about Mr. Suck up, leave the conversation. Take a look outside or go for a quick walk if it gets to you. Stay focused on learning engineering.

Do not focus on this or you will go mad. Focus on the positives, do a good job and enjoy engineering.

Good luck,
Dermott

 

[RVSWA]

Diarmud is shooting it straight, be an engineer.

 

[IFRs]

Diarmud said it well. Especially the last two words.