High Piled Storage site visit - No riser placards?? 1

[arion]

Hi,

When visiting a site, I realized that there was no riser information giving the design density/area of the system and the owner cannot find any existing plans of the sprinkler system at all.

What is the next logical step to acquire a design density/area for this project? Do I hire an engineer to recalculate the hydraulic calculations all over again, or can I use a minimum design density based on the building occupancy type?

Thanks

 

[stookeyfpe]

It would depend on the scope of work. If it's a pipe schedule system and your moving sprinklers for a Tenant Improvement, a recalculation is probably not required if the occupancy hazard classification is unchanged.

If it's high-piled storage and someone is changing commodities or storage practices, then a system tracing and a new water supply test along with a recalculation of the system is necessary in my mind.

 

[cdafd]

Any identifiers???? As to who maybe installed it???


Does the ahj happen to do plan review or keep a copy of the spk plans??

Same insurance company, maybe they have some record

Any state agency that oversees sprinklers???

 

[arion]

Hi Stookey, I dont know if it's pipe-scheduled or if the placard is simply missing. The occupancy hazard has not changed though. I think it may need to get recalculated if I cannot find anything.

cdafd, I like your advice of contacting the insurance company. Thanks for the tips, guys!

 

[LCREP]

arion,

You are correct you will need to hire someone to calculate what the sprinkler system can provide. They will need a hydrant water flow test as close as possible to the building to complete the calculations. So you may want to see what the time frame is for the hydrant test. Some water companies will charge and take several months to do the test.

The insurance company MAY be able to calculate the system depending on IF they have a engineering department. OR they may have the info on file IF they have visited the building.



****************************************
Fire Sprinklers Save Firefighters’ Lives Too!

 

[EGFPE]

I run into this on many existing buildings. First determine when the building was built or if the sprinkler system was added, when was it added. If prior to the early 1970's it is most likely a pipe schedule system as hydraulic designs were in limited use until the late 1970's. I did a number of them while an FPE student at the University of Maryland and hand calculations took a long time so they were not used much.

If the system is newer, then check to see if the building engineer has any as-builts of the system. The next step is to check the local building/fire department to see if they kept approved plans, but don't count on this. Ultimately see if you can identify the name of the installation company. Some keep files for a long time, but recently many have started to destroy documents greater than 10 years old on the advice of their legal departments.

You may also check with the building insurer if this is an HPR insured property. They tend to keep the information in their files. If none of the above works, then the last ditch effort is to go to the site and redraw the entire system. Make certain to determine the pipe schedule and get a recent water supply test. I try to avoid this because I do not like to charge my clients for this type of work unless absolutely necessary. But then again I am different than my competition; I try to save my clients engineering cost as I would rather they apply their limited resources to fixing the problem.

-EG ESH Consultants, Fire Protection Engineers