Ho can i convence my boss to buy an 3D software? 1

[JAFDias]

Hi there.

I am getting tired of working with AutoCAD 2D in my mechanical projects.

How can i convence my boss to acquire 1 licence of an 3D software...whatever it may be (Inventor, SW, CATIA, etc) ?

I already started with the time saving and solid and relyable results... but still no success.

Any sugestion?


After that... wich software do you think it has the better cost/efficiency relation? And why?


Thaks a lot.

RJDias

 

[DesignerMike]

It's not the best method, but I learned enough 3D autocad so they got a feel for what 3D looks like. They can realize some of the benefits of 3D without any of the cost.

Start small... and ask for permission to get a trial version and do a small project. You will have to work hard to be able to get any "production" type work done within the trial time (although it isn't too hard to get it extended to 60 or 90 days).

Even if you have a simple 10 part subassembly modeled on your screen and you show him how fast you can create some 4 view drawings of each part or section views of the assembly it becomes VERY HARD to argue against it. If you need more amunition, just go back to a couple of the parts and change one or two dimensions and simply update the drawings to show how easy and fast, and accurate it is to make changes.

While you are doing this, make sure to point out any drawing errors that are in production that would have been eliminated by using a better program.

If you have a current license of autocad, Inventor is by far the most affordable option. BUT it REALLY depends on what type of work you do.

 

[xgrigorix]

I would point out the cost savings from a manufacturing point of view. There will be more mistakes caught at the design stage of things. Yes, its true, because as a designer you'll be seeing whats actually going on as you examine the model. With more mistakes eliminated during design, that means more productivity out in the shop. Fewer prototypes, less ECO's from production. These are great reasons to upgrade to 3D.

 

[J-C]

Get another job maybe?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2005 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2006 SP1.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[JAFDias]

Ehehehe That's good GildAshard... Another job or another boss!

I heard that Inventor may have some problems on the assembly stage.. and it's not easy to keep the assembly clean. I already worked with CATIA V5 and loved it. Istead, with SW.. i think i neved had good results on that field, but i'm just a rookie in SW.

Will i have the same dificulties using inventor as i face using SW?

 

[xgrigorix]

JAFDias,

Check this post for some more info on Inventor.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=140143&page=1

As for new job or new boss, that's your call!

Just remember, your boss isn't going to upgrade just because you know its a good idea. You'll need to show him/her how they benefit from this. Bosses love to see things like ROI's (return on investment). You've got to show them proof that it will effect the company's bottom line in a positive way. No one cares that it will make your job easier. What will it do for your boss/company? Answer those questions and you just might find yourself in 3D modeling heaven.

 

[JAFDias]

Xgrigorix, I already seen that. In fact, was there where i seen thoose supose problems discussed.

Thanks a lot anyway.

RJDias

 

[PeterCharles]

Nothing is perfect IV, SW, SE etc.

Also remember that you arn't getting a 3D CAD system! What you are getting is 3D Solid Modelling software, so don't think about "drawing" a part, think about "making" a part. Drawings come after as views of the model that can be dimensioned.
In assemblies you will be able to check for clearance/interference but it all takes effort.
Remember, it's easy to "fudge" a 2D drawing but it's not as easy with 3D.

 

[trainguy]

Guys,

In my experience, it's not necessarily faster. All these things that you no longer need to do (project lines, imagine how a part looks from above, draw, etc) get replaced by the following goodies:

- Vanishing constraints (stuff moves versus yesterday's version)

- Incorrect part / assembly versions due to vault/database issues ("What happened to the hole that we made yesterday...")

- Incorrect flat patterns (if you dare include a chamfered edge, etc.)

- Inability to use the "stretch" command (best Acad feature)

- Daily surprises (all of the above)

- 6 minutes to open the drawing file of an assembly

- Realizing that "Get latest version actually means "Get Vault version" (Autodesk users - you know what I mean...)

- Need another zillion Mb of graphics RAM

And many other goodies.

Its still cool (and quick) to make design decisions in 3d though, so we're pretty much committed, but we have just taken 1.5 years to engineer the overhaul of a locomotive - a job that used to take 1 year on drafting boards and vellum.

tg

 

[DesignerMike]

Trainguy points out some of the nice additional "undocumented" features you can get.

The vault is not as intuitive as salesman would lead you to believe, but I think it is a great tool. I just wish I had time to understand it 100% and use more of it's power.

"Faster" is an elusive term, and only seems to get exponentially worse as the assemblies get more complicated and more designers are working on them.

I'm a one man department, but my experience has been that once you get to a certain "part count" it becomes more important to have a good assembly and sub assembly structure and working procedure in place. Unfortunately as the programs mature the "best working practices" and program capacity changes. Then add in a new feature like the vault and a group of designers can quickly get bogged down in software training and education instead of focusing on the design work at hand.

Large assemblies (like a plant layout) take a LONG time to get assembled. You learn a lot about your procedure and the program capability along the way, but you're not going to start over again. In the mean time you probably have one or two upgrade releases with service packs to complicate things and add "new undocumented features".

You say it used to take 1 year to engineer an overhaul on boards...but how many years of board experience and setting up procedures do you have(probably many years, and a perfected procedure). In comparison, assembling procedures of 3D models (including all the vault stuff etc) is relatively new.

I think the best thing to do is try to "work your way up to" a large assembly. In the process you will undoubtedly learn the best practices and how to manage the files.

 

[trainguy]

DesignerMike -

Your point about designers getting bogged down is right on the money.

The designer's energy & focus are now aimed at resolving software issues, not ensuring accurate technical content. Consequently, I see a relatively large no. of drawing errors, only because of the finite qty of time & effort available to the designers.

Also, if Vault was so great & intuitive, you wouldn't need that extra time you request to understand it 100%!

In the full year that we've been on Vault, (versus semi-isolated projects), we have needed to restore a previous file version only once, and this was due to a Vault confusion in the first place. Talk about ironic.

To me, every office needs to have a 3D guru, to mentor and assist the others and remove some of that extra burden. I guess managers etc. need to factor that cost in as well.

On the plus side - it's really handy to retrieve 3D models from old jobs, tweak them, and re-use them for similar work, including new FEA, etc. Try that with Acad...

Cheers,

tg

 

[SW2006]

does anyone find that the vault collapses after you reach 5+ users?

 

[Ratso]

Hi Sw2006,
The standard Vault installation on the dvd only works with a limited sql server as part of the installation. When you reach a certain number of users you have to install (purchase) the full sql server in order for vault to work.

Incidently, vault 5 is in my eyes better than any of the previous versions, and is way easier to install configure and use - and this because i actually use and not just because i sell it. If one looks at the functionality and your company is promoting itself as an ISO 9002 compliant organisation, using vault actually takes you more than 50% to compliance.

I think when one looks at using CAD, 3D modelling and software like vault, you have to apply it beyond just the drawing office, it has an effect on engineering, procurement, manufacturing, r&d, sales, marketing, operational management, etc. The trick is to make this work for all of those, because when you have buy in from all of those other departments, you get the budget to buy the latest and fastest and biggest much easier.....you dont have to convince anybody.

JAFdias if you want any assistance, again look on the autodesk website, if that does not help contact the local autodesk reseller, they should be able to help you (after all its their job to do that) and last resort, mail me. I'll give you some pointers and information to use.

Cheers

Ratso

 

[Panzer1970]

Start checking the competition's webistes for 3D content and then show that to your boss.

 

[VIPDesign]

Try doing sheet metal blanks from your AutoCAD 2D as fast and as accurately as Inventor can. Also, we are in the custom equipment business and the 3D rendered views AND slide shows (Inventor Studio) impress the heck out of the customers.
After using solid modeling for about 9 years, I can wholeheartedly say that it is faster, more accurate and more impressive than 2D. I'd be hard pressed to say which was a more significant development; going from the drawing board to 2D OR going from 2D to 3D.

 

[Russell67]

You really need to evaluate what it is that your company does and what it will be used for. We do alot of pc boards and autocad is great for that, but modeling that is a waste of time. Also with any program you chose you need to learn it effectively. I work with people who when asked about constraint / relations they say talk to HR. As someone wrote earlier 3d modeling is different than 2d drafting. Done right it is great, done crappy and you spend hours to correct someone else crap. Ergo the guru. Evaluate, evaluate then evaluate some more.

Remember 3d modeling requires serious data managment. Nothing worse then spending time resolving broken links, searching directories for parts because someone cut and pasted from their desktop to the network.

All this should be looked at prior to implementation but keep it simple. Productivity is lost with training new employees to use a system that was difficult.

What ever you chose, always plan ahead for unseen issues

 

[ctopher]

I suggest having demo's from each 3D CAD company to show management. I prefer SolidWorks over the others.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[RHMagster]

JAFD...

Hi, I too had this problem and it looks as though you are getting good advice from this thread.

Main thing to do, and this is prob. a repeat of what has been said already, get demo's from companies.
Apply your companies products to the demo's.

Research cost of seat.
Pic one that is compatible with current customer base, ask for their recommendations as well.

Committ your self to the task of learning the progarm and demonstrate the efficiency of it in real time.

Of course, look to see if the company can pay out $5k for a basic seat. You will also (in most cases) need better plotting equip for hard copy presentations. Look to see if your current I/O's can handle the new software.

All in all don't get down if it doesn't come about soon. Hang in their. Persistance is key.

RHmagster

Never Stop Learning, ;-)