Hourly Pay vs Salary

[wwchick]

I am currently paid hourly,since I do not have my PE yet. It works well for me when I need to take unexpected time off (kids). I always take unpaid leave. The motivation is to get the PE and get paid more and continue to balance my family obligations. I am a working mother.

Are there engineers with PE's out there that get paid by the hour?

 

[LHA]

I get paid by the hour, and I wouldn't have it any other way. In my job, overtime is unavoidable. I earn 10-15% above my base wage in OT each year.

I used to have a salary, worked the same number of hours I do now, I just did not get paid for them.

I think you will still have to take unpaid leave for anything which exceeds your contracted amount of paid leave. I might be wrong, but I don't think your boss is going to pay you your full salary unless you put in the full 40 hours per week. Make sure you clarify that during your renegotiation prior to accepting a salary.

Also, make sure you know what the bonus/profit sharing structure is. That money should at least offset the OT which you will no longer be eligible for.

A good compromise might be to accept straight-time OT, versus 1.5 time OT.

Remember: The Chinese ideogram for “crisis” is comprised of the characters for “danger” and “opportunity.”
-Steve

 

[mshimko]

I find it interesting that a company uses one's PE as a decision maker regarding salary versus hourly.

In my business, the vast majority of companies have all "professionals" on salary. Per federal labor law, we're categorized as "excempt" because we are excempt from many labor laws, such as those governing overtime.

When I retired from the Navy over 10 years ago, the firm I went to work for was an exception, they paid hour by hour, straight time for over 40/week. However, they were not as good at the "business side of the business", and we were acquired by another company 5 years ago. Gradually, our processes and procedures have migrated to the new company's, and now all degree'd personnel are salaried.

//mjs

 

[MichSt]

I’ve been told by my employer that when doing work for a client (the civil firm I work for does client based work for various government agencies, DOTs, counties, cities, etc.) federal law requires that you get paid for all the hours you work, i.e., if you work overtime on a client’s project you at least get paid straight time. Can anyone confirm this??? I didn’t bother to since those hours show up on my paychecks!

The downside is that when doing “non-billable” work like marketing, I only get paid up to 40 hours per my salary, no OT.

 

[HgTX]

I work for a state. We have to fill out hourly timesheets even though we're salaried. The nice thing is that even though we're overtime "exempt", we still at least get hour-for-hour comp time for overtime worked, and (the important part) we actually get to use that comp time.

I'm told that the Feds don't get this kind of comp time. I don't know what I'd do without it.

Hg

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[greekmom]

I am a part-time civil engineer and a mother. Unless I am missing the point of your question, I don't know why you link how you are paid to whether or not you have a P.E. Having a P.E. only means you are worth more(get paid higher), but has nothing to do with the contract between your employer and you - you may be able to choose being a contractor, whereby you get paid hourly, or being an employee, it depends on what you and your employer decide to work out.

 

[HgTX]

I was assuming it's her employer's policy. Is it?

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines: faq731-376

 

[mshimko]

For MichSt re federal law: The vast majority of the work I perform is under contract for the federal government, and I do not currently get OT for over 40/week; whereas 2 years ago I did (same company, same client; it was a shift in company policy).

Two things matter:
(1) your company policy (which in my case has changed), and
(2) The contract you're working under.

While some contracts may require full pay for all hours worked, but this seems unlikely as it would merely increase the cost to the client. On the other hand, a company's proposal for a contract may stipulate that the company typically performs 45 hours of work for salary - which works to ensure employees MUST work additional hours for their salary. I also know some companies will state up-front in the hiring process that employees are expected to work additional hours for the "high salaries" they are offered.

"Comp Time" is a totally different matter. The gov't agency I worked at just prior to retiring from the military clocked engineer's hours; who would typically work 16 hour days at select times, such as sea trials. This additional time was recorded as "comp time". The employee DID NOT get paid additional for it - at first. The employee could take this comp time later in lieu of using vacation time; the agency also had the option to "buy back" comp time at the end of the fiscal year, IF the agency had the funds to do this. In this case, then, the employee would essentially "get paid" for his/her OT.

 

[greenone]

Different states have different labor laws. Generally, exempt employees may not have their pay docked if they work less than 40 hours, as they are on salary, and not hourly workers. That said, many employers continue to do so, as the employees (myself included) find it a convenient way to take time off after vacation is used up. Unless someone complains to the local Dept of Labor relations, the practice will continue. I think it was about 10 years ago when major engineering firms had to cough up back pay for a lot of employees because of a suit filed.
For exempt employees, OT pay or comp time or nothing is as per the company policy.

 

[BigH]

Interesting how the "laws" are oft quoted here. When I started, we got paid hourly but it was quite understood that we got no overtime pay - aw, but the company got to bill. Later, with a different company, they changed to paying for O/T if chargeable to a client - which, at the time and still presently, seems fair. With respect to the first point above, a storey of which I am aware: one young field/geotechnical engineer was sent out to supervise drilling at an important site on an urgent basis - he was working from 0700 to midnight for 10 days in a row. Hence, 17 hours of work straight for 8 (or was it 7.5?) hrs/day. He put in an expense report for 4 meals a day. He was questioned on this but the query was dropped when he asked for his time sheet back - "Why?" - "Well, if you don't pay the 4 meals, I might have only worked 8 hours per day, eh??" Needless to say - his expenses were approved instantly.

 

[71corvette]

I have my PE and work for a national multi-disciplined engineernig firm and am paid hourly (straight time). It was also this way before I was licensed. Non-professional employees (draftsman, admin assistants, etc) are paid at 1.5xHourly.

Considering the windfall profit any company sees when it's employees working overtime I think this is the fair way to do buisness.

Of course some companies offer increased salaries to compensate their employees for the fact that OT is not paid. Just make sure you know when negotiating salary...

 

[mshimko]

Additional company profit for OT?? This was alluded to by tinytim & BigH.

I guess all contracts/businesses are different, but if I do not receive OT pay, but were to log in say 50 hours one week (both tcommon in my current position); then yes, the company will bill the customer for 50 hours, BUT the effective hourly rate will be reduced. I believe this is required by federal contract and acquisition law, but I'm not positive (and even if it were the law for federal contracts, it may not apply to contracts between private companies).

Also, this is what some companies refer to as "uncompensated OT", and some that require uncompensated OT, because one result is the company's "average hourly rate" is reduced, which helps the company when bidding on future contracts.

 

[queque]

I am getting ready to hire 3 PE's and compete at a different level.
My one person Company is great for me (no headaches) but I do need some headaches to compete at a higher level.
One idea is to compensate the part time employees for all hourly time spent. Then allow them to share in the profit.
This is based on their proper ethics of understanding the bottom line and at the same time be part of the profit my company would make. It is fair to them, fair to me and allows assembling a highly motivated group to compete.
They would remain part time employees until they decide to take the same monetary risk that I do.
Does that sound like a plan or fantasy?

 

[ChristopherFehr]

It may not be relevent because I am in Canada but technically all non union employees are salary at my current employment. It sais I work 40 hours per week on my pay stub but not an actual hourly rate, just the biweekly amount. It is pretty easy to figure out what this is. If I work OT I am supposed to be paid 1.5 times but the small amount I do I prefer to just bank it like my more senior coworkers. I am getting my P. Eng. this month and will be moved up a to a staff level with a much higher bonus and salary and am nolonger elegible for OT but am expected to bank my extra time and leave early or take an extra day off. Seams to work best for me except when there is a strike I go back to getting paid 1.5 after 40 hours.

 

[Slugger926]

HgTX you are wrong about the FEDS. My sister works for the USDA as an engineer. They get time and a half comp time and work hourly.

In OK, you are concidered hourly by law if you don't have any say in hiring/firing of employees, and have to fill in time sheets even if your company pays you as exempt. Companies that don't follow this set themselves up to be sued by their ex-exemployees for 3 times their back overtime, and the management chain can also be sued for the same ammount individually. A good record keeper could hit the lottery, but may not find anyone that will hire them again.

 

[HgTX]

Slugger--is it possible that different federal agencies have different rules? I was told by an FHWA employee that their salaried employees don't get comp time.

Hg

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[Slugger926]

It could be that the rule differ per each states laws too.

 

[mshimko]

Re. Slugger's recent post, the Federal rules must differ, from agancy to agency if not by location.

In the DC area, most "professional", including ALL engineers I know are salary, no OT, no comp time (this may be practice rather than regulation).

At my last Navy command, civilian engineers clocked time hourly, but rec'd only comp-time for hours over 40.

I suspect that certain practics simply become "accepted". I can imagine a gov't eng in DC complaining about not getting OT.......most likely he/she would be sat down and a few things discussed.....

 

[MPENN]

My state highway agency employs engineers in staff and management positions. The three staff classifications are Civil, Senior Civil and Principal Civil. Staff engineers are eligible for OT when warranted,e.g. hot submissions, night public presentation, etc. Management, Chief Civils and above, are classified as having "non-standard" work hours. Management is not eligible for OT.

Not for nothing, but not all have an interest in OT.