How to automate HVLV distribution substations using SCADA

[scientif]

Hello!

I wish to thank you for the time and consideration you gave to my question.

I need to know if it is possible for an Electric Utility to use SCADA from a Dispatch Center to automate their HV/LV distribution substations.

In the Dispatch Center, dispatchers can supervise substations by receiving data (e.g. transformers loading, currents, voltages, etc.), and control HV switchgears and LV circuit breakers in the substation by having the possibility to open/close them remotely (e.g. to isolate the transformer in case of a HV or LV disturbance).

Please tell me if there are any Electric Utilities that do this; It would really help me benchmark their experience. Any resources on this subject you could kindly suggest?

Thank you.

Best Regards.

 

[slavag]

What type of automation?
grid automation, station automation.
What is functionality?

 

[scientif]

Hi slavag,

Here it's substation automation.

Functionality: dispatcher receives data about a substation (e.g. transformers loading, currents, voltages, etc.). He is also able to open (respectively: close) the HV switch and LV circuit breaker to isolate (respectively: reconnect) the substation's transformer in case of a disturbance on the HV or LV grid.

 

[slavag]

OK, is not automation .
It's remote control, metering and monitoring.
Standard solution of lot of NCC ( national control center )

 

[scientif]

Thank you slavag,

Apparently the so-called NCC controls HV/HV and HV/MV substations. Here what I want to control HV/LV substations (typically 22kV/400V).

 

[slavag]

No problem, it will be small SCADA
you need or RTU ( remote terminal unit) or any good remote IO of PLC.

Its doesn't important, voltage level, rules, are same. only price of devices will be cheaper.

 

[scientif]

OK slavag,

Do you have any documents or websites to help me understand more?

 

[slavag]

It's lot of sites and documents, really need something simple.
Could you please give more details about your objects/stations and we try sent you some examples.
What control and protection devices are used?

 

[davidbeach]

It seems like you're asking if SCADA can be used to do what SCADA is used to do. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so it's difficult to figure out how to answer.

 

[scientif]

Thank you for your responses,

@slavag: some HV/LV substations have air-insulated switchgears, others have open-air isolators. HV protection uses fuses and switches, LV protection uses fuses and circuit-breakers.

@slavag and @davidbeach: I apologize because my question is confusing, as I am not familiar with SCADA. My question is: Do you know any electric utilities who implemented a SCADA system for their HV/LV distribution substations?

 

[davidbeach]

Define HV, LV? LV is generally less than 1kV and HV is generally more than 69kV. I'm not aware of any utility with HV/LV substations, but if there were I'm sure that SCADA could be used.

 

[scientif]

You could call them MV/LV substations (but the name "MV" has been abandoned lately, and replaced by "HV" where HV >= 1kV for AC). In my case MV = 22kV and LV = 400V.

 

[davidbeach]

Must be a European thing, I can't imagine a substation with those voltages. But if you have electrically operable breakers then there is no reason that SCADA couldn't be used to control it.

 

[bacon4life]

In the USA we don't typically have your type of substation, but we do have variety of automation at the 35 kV, 25 kV, 15 kV, 480V, 240V and 120V levels. For larger industrial customers we sometimes have SCADA on the medium voltage protection device on the high side of the transformer. We have a variety of smart meters on the low side of distribution transformers, including some residential meters with remote disconnect capabilities.

 

[slavag]

MV/LV substations is usually industrial substation.
Usually used some SCADA is based on PLC, simple and cheaper- Modbus, Profibus, CAN-bus protocols.
For MV in utilities,DMS ( distribution management system ) is used.

As I understood, you can try build something like to island grid, local application.
Do you have digital protective terminals on the MV side?
Do you need resolution of 1ms?

 

[crshears]

I need to know if it is possible for an Electric Utility to use SCADA from a Dispatch Center to automate their HV/LV distribution substations.

Hi scientif,

Almost anything is possible, given enough money, time, expertise and patience...

Is you question regarding completely new construction or establishing "supervisory control" of existing equipment?

Clearly, in the first case the system can be designed for remote control and telemetry right from the get-go.

If on the other hand the desire is to add remote control and telemetry where it does not presently exist, you are faced with the prospect of equipment upgrades and/or replacement on a grand [read the word EXPENSIVE!] scale. I'm not at liberty to post any URLs about it or anything, but our utility is, essentially, running a small-scale prototype distribution management system experiment on a portion of our existing rural grid to study the feasibility of doing exactly what you're asking about utility-wide. Incidentally, this only reaches down to the 4.8 kV level.

The experiment is still ongoing, but the preliminary results suggest that the cost of doing this far exceeds the value added, since the density of rural customers served will never justify the expenditure. A municipal or city system, on the other hand, having a much higher density of customers per unit area, can readily make a case for implementing such control.

Hope this helps.

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[scientif]

we do have variety of automation at the 35 kV, 25 kV, 15 kV, 480V, 240V and 120V levels.

Thank you. Do you know any products (from GE, Rockwell, or others) that you could recommend?

As I understood, you can try build something like to island grid, local application.
Do you have digital protective terminals on the MV side?
Do you need resolution of 1ms?

Thanks for your reply. Actually we don't have digital protective terminals on the MV side. A resolution of 100 ms would be good for us, because we have more than 2000 MV/LV substations in our distribution system.

our utility is, essentially, running a small-scale prototype distribution management system experiment on a portion of our existing rural grid to study the feasibility of doing exactly what you're asking about utility-wide. Incidentally, this only reaches down to the 4.8 kV level.

Thank you very much for your help. Are there any public documents discussing your utility's experience in using SCADA with MV/LV substations? I can give you my email if needed.

 

[crshears]

Are there any public documents discussing your utility's experience in using SCADA with MV/LV substations?

Afraid not.

You could however have a look at the pages of this vendor; they might be helful. Disclaimer: I am not associated with this company in any way.

http://www2.schneider-electric.com/.../former-brands/telvent/telvent_utilities.page

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[scientif]

Ok crshears thank you very much.

 

[rmiell]

Schweitzer, Siemens, NovaTech all handle SCADA products.

You might want to involve an electrical engineer in the design phase, as there are alot of variables that need to be considered.

Good luck.

Rick Miell