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How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer? 2

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Butters1Stotch1

Industrial
Dec 29, 2013
1
I almost have my Industrial Engineering degree and thinking of master studies in mechanical. I looked through job market again and was surprised.
It is said that there's no problem for an engineer to find a job but the requirements are so high nowadays. They ask for experience, languages, skills in software I was never introduced to during my studies. I've seen no job ads that I'd be qualified to after my graduation. How do fresh engineers start off in the job market then?
 
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Like every other student... they either do co-ops while in school, or work for companies that hire fresh grads. Plenty of them out there, you just need to find them. Job fairs are the best place to look if you're mired down by too many decisions.

Dan - Owner
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"It is said that there's no problem for an engineer to find a job but the requirements are so high nowadays. They ask for experience, languages, skills in software I was never introduced to during my studies. I've seen no job ads that I'd be qualified to after my graduation. How do fresh engineers start off in the job market then?"

I don't see that there should be that much expectation for a new graduate to have that much experience. Obviously, internships will, at the minimum, put you a rung or two further up the ladder than the typical new grad, so you should definitely avail yourself to them. However, most internships amount to being gophers, so the level of expectation can be very low. If you do get an internship, it's really up to you to extract as much useful experience as possible; do not rely on someone else doing that for you.

You should take advantage of on-campus job fairs, interviews, etc. in those situations, there are no expectations of extensive experience, so if you miss out on those, you will be at a disadvantage when looking for a job in the open market.

TTFN
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I'll echo the emphasis on the on-campus resources you have now. You won't have access to a career services department, job fairs, or counseling again in your career (at least without paying for it). That's a good place to start.

The other thing to remember is that job descriptions are sometimes what is referred to as "purple squirrels" job postings. They simply want things that don't exist (and often at a level of compensation that is ridiculous). Don't be too discouraged by overly optimistic job descriptions. While you shouldn't be applying for VP or management level jobs, applying for a position that sounds slightly out of your qualifications means you are probably applying for a job you are qualified for. In the meantime, do everything you can now to show some leadership and demonstrate that you stand out from your peers (take on a position in a professional society, participate in research, be flexible in job location or responsibilities).

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
 
I'm a year removed from my BSME, now, and I understand your frustration. "Entry Level" jobs want 2-3 years of experience... or so they say. I did have a 1-year internship/part-time job while in school, plus tutoring, so I think that helped me out a bit. Larger companies tend to have professional development programs, where fresh grads will spend 1-2 years doing 4 or more facets of engineering and travelling around the country and/or abroad. I was already settled in where I wanted to be (the wonderful woman I married already had a secure and well-paying job), so those kinds of programs were out of the question. I was fortunate to find a small (more like micro) company near to home that picked me up and has outfitted me with so much experience and new skills.

I'll also echo the more experienced guys: on- and off-campus job fairs are great jumping off points, and university career services are great since employers in contact with them expect fresh grads who are greener than Kermit. Also, you'll only have access to those career services for a brief period of time- I know my school only provides them for one semester after you gradute.

If you're willing to move (and/or spend a year or two in limbo), there should be plenty of opportunities for you around the country.
 
Just remember job requirements are often written by HR weenies who have no idea of the significance of what they are really asking for.
An example " Mechanical engineer with Cad experience, 10 years of Solidworks 2014 required."
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
Bear in mind, also, the requirements typically listed in a job posting are almost NEVER hard and fast requirements, other than the degree requirement, possibly. We've interviewed non-degreed people for degreed positions, and rejected them after the interview, but for reasons unrelated to the lack of specific compliance to the posting requirements.

Personally, I got a job based on a specific posting that I was not completely qualified for; but I knew the manager, so ;-) That's kind of the point here. Good personality fit and personal connections also count.


If you don't try for those jobs, you'll never know if you could have gotten them. Be persistent; he who hesitates is lost.

TTFN
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7ofakss

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If all the good advice about using the on-campus resources doesn't pan out, you might want to invest in some comfortable, but stylish shoes, and hit the pavement. The best two employees I've hired were walk-ins. Came in, we were intrigued and one thing led to another. As a new graduate, you're at a bit of a handicap, but there are people who are impressed with a little initiative. You'll end up getting nowhere at a lot of places, but all you need is one nibble.
And another thing about the published "Help Wanted" ads. A lot of them used to be (I'm not sure how they are today, last time I did it was 20 years ago), decoys to get someone a permanant visa. You'd have an employee and his/her student visa was about to run out. So if the employer wanted to keep the employee, they'd have to put their job on the open market. To discourage a lot of applicants, they'd put in every bit of software, training and other knowledge that employee has in the ad as a requirement. It didn't mean they were vital, just a way to customize the job opening. If you see those unrealistic ads, apply anyway. If they need that one person, they might need another. And even if you don't know every bit of software in the ad, you might have other outstanding attributes.
 
Gonna ride on Jed's coattails here for a minute and recall my first years.......
Obtained a great position when I had to move into a new area for family reasons just as I was graduating, by going line by line through the yellow pages.
Later, was laid off in the early 80s recession at 5pm friday afternoon, did the yellow pages thing Saturday morning, a two man shop answered and I said I figured if you were working Saturday you need some help. Got the job.
Neither one was advertising.

Now, when I hire, I look for initiative, which is a hard thing to discern. So I look for the little things like a call out of the blue, or a follow up from an interview or a second follow up from an email, or anything .....

Good Luck!
 
It bugs me to no end that many of the jobs I see on Monster, LinkedIn, Career Builder, etc. list "entry level" jobs which require 3-5 years experience. Obviously, some HR monkey didn't pay attention to the engineering hiring manager's bullet points, or the hiring managers really are that daft.

It also bugs me that "lead engineer" roles, which are described in duty / function as basically one step up from engineering minion, are listed with 10-15 years experience required.

I'm at the point of transition between advanced entry level to lead engineer, and I'm finding the same frustrations as the OP.

Where do people get these insane ideas? All it's doing is pushing young talent away from industry and towards self-employment, small business, etc. It's hurtful to the industrial base. What's wrong with bringing in that young talent and drive, and you know... training / developing them. Oh, it costs too much? So, the constant vacillation of semi-qualified, outsourced labor pool and a couple of should-be-engineering-managers-with-10-15-years-experience who leave after 2 years for greener pastures totally justifies the miniscule savings over just hiring right / training / development in the first place.

Ok that was a bit of a rant, but come on. When will the madness stop? Entry level means entry level. Don't list 3-5 years experience required for an entry level job. It's just plain idiotic. And don't try to get an Engineering Manager at a Lead Engineer salary, because you will create for yourself massive retention issues of that's your general strategy.



Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.

Talent: the ability to use experience.

Which is more valuable?
 
Re: On Campus Resources

I didn't have good luck with my career center back then. It was a bit underdeveloped for STEM type jobs. I would say it's a good starting point for some basics, but look elsewhere when it comes to the details. Unless, of course, your career center is operated within your engineering school, by those from the engineering disciplines. That would be a completely different case.

A resume for a sales job will look completely different than a resume for an engineering job. A cover letter will look different.

I've had great luck with Monster resources, and Linked In is a great networking tool. Throw those into the pot. When it comes to writing a resume, be progressive. B. E. Progressive. There's a ton of templates to be found on the internet.

Lastly, don't just settle for some job just because it's a job. What are your hobbies? What do you want to be doing in 5-10 years? Find a place which provides you with a foundation to support you, not them. Why? Because they have no issues with letting people go to help their business. And when you get sick of being tossed around, you'll need solid ground to stand on when you start your own gig. Don't be afraid to treat a job like a stepping stone to a higher goal. These advisors say they want ambition and initiative... well, give them exactly that. And when they can't match you, they have to accept you'll move on to someone who will. Play their game exactly how they've asked you to play it... with drive, tenacity, passion, initiative, and more ambition than they can keep up with.


Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.

Talent: the ability to use experience.

Which is more valuable?
 
Enginerd9 said:
I'm at the point of transition between advanced entry level to lead engineer
That's a hell of a gap! "Advanced entry level" (to me) means 2-3 years... "lead engineer" means 15-20+. There's a whole lot of growin' goin' on in those intervening years.

Dan - Owner
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Co-op programs are awesome if you're doing a Bachelors', but don't really exist for a Master's.

As others said here, job ad "requirements" are to be understood as a wish list rather than something which decides whether or not your resume gets thrown in the shredder.

Plenty of firms hiring fresh grads? Perhaps- but there's a sh*tload of fresh grads on the market these days, and a wide fraction of those eng grads are not finding eng work. And employers still b*tch about a "shortage of skilled workers", i.e. the fresh grads they didn't hire 10 years prior. They're reaping what they've sown- I just hope the coming demographic shift wipes out some of these bottom-feeders.

No co-op experience? Then it's either the job fair/university placement program route, which might work for you if your marks are awesome, or it's going to come down to connections. Them that's got, shall have, them that's not, shall lose...typically "connections" means "parents" if you're a kid fresh out of school.

None of that working? Then it's shoe leather- pounding the pavement. Guaranteed, if you never leave your computer screen, you're not going to find anything.

Tried to give triangled a star, but it wouldn't let me (something wrong with my browser?). Richly deserved- creative, phoning companies on a Friday to see who answers! I liked business directories rather than just the Yellow Pages, but perhaps you'd be able to find more 2-man shops with the Yellow Pages- too bad they're in the dustbin of history now- websites are no substitute.
 
And see, MacGuyvers, that's exactly the problem. Lead Engineer is not the same as Engineering Manager or Director of Engineering. I've got 10 years in the industry, which should put me ahead of anything in the 2-3 years range. I should be looking at leadership roles... aka Lead Engineer.

I disagree heartily with the assumption that a Lead Engineer takes 15-20+ years to grow. A Lead Engineer is one step up from Engineering Minion in the current industry culture, and the step after that is Engineering Manager. After that, Director of Engineering.

In any case, your assertion just proves my original point that the scale is skewed, biased towards the end. So with your logic, we're all Entry Level Engineers for 15+ years before somehow, magically, we wake up one day with enough experience to take that single next step. It's ludicrous... and while the Boomer generation is retiring and leaving the workforce en-mass, this reluctance to allow a more normalized scale of responsibility and training is creating HUGE gaps in the available qualified engineers for those interim positions.

Well done! You've shot us all in the foot! lol

Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.

Talent: the ability to use experience.

Which is more valuable?
 
Molten said it here:

"i.e. the fresh grads they didn't hire 10 years prior. They're reaping what they've sown- I just hope the coming demographic shift wipes out some of these bottom-feeders."

"They" are indeed reaping what they've sown, as I've suggested. And I also agree that the upcoming demographic will need to establish a clean slate from which to build / grow. Which, to me, is why things like Maker Bot, Facebook, Twitter, the Open Source / DIY market, etc. are all so inspiring. To me, those things represent an entire generation of people sick of the archaic formulas for success.

Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.

Talent: the ability to use experience.

Which is more valuable?
 
I see almost identical ads runs these days compared to 7-8 years ago with no change in salary but a change in experience requirement from 5 years to now 10 and in some cases 15 years. Similar gripe to what you describe ("moving the goalposts"), probably in big part due to economic reasons.
 
Exactly, CarolinaPE. Moving the goal posts. I could speculate about the reasons, but it wouldn't be constructive. But I think we all can recognize the problems it's creating.

Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.

Talent: the ability to use experience.

Which is more valuable?
 
"I should be looking at leadership roles... aka Lead Engineer."

You should, perhaps, but that doesn't mean you'll get them.

" A Lead Engineer is one step up from Engineering Minion in the current industry culture, and the step after that is Engineering Manager. After that, Director of Engineering."

That says nothing about the size of the steps. I've been in the same company for 12 years, now and we've had exactly one engineering manager change in a total of 3 departments.

TTFN
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7ofakss

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